March 9, 2023 - 10:35am
Regret purchasing the Ankarsrum?
Hello. I’m new here, and I respect this group’s opinions. I am curious if anyone here regrets purchasing the Ankarsrum?
Has anyone almost given up on it, but later came to love it? How long did the learning curve take for you?
For any who did get rid of their Ankarsrum, which machine do you prefer over it, and why?
I purchased my Ankarsrum a few months, but I am really struggling with the learning curve. Maybe it’s user error, but I am a person who needs clear instructions. The Ankarsrum has so many variables that are hard for me to duplicate from batch to batch (where the roller is placed, what speed to use, etc.) I am thinking about selling it, but I also want to make sure I’m not giving up too soon.
Thanks for your help!
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by any of its various names over the years, I can't offer any helpful insights.
However, it is a topic that has gotten plenty of discussion over the years so, while you are waiting for Ank owners to respond, use the Search tool in the upper right-hand corner of the page to find out what has been said previously. You can search for terms such as Ankarsrum, or Ank, or Assistent, or dlx, or anything else that relates to these machines.
Lots of good stuff out there that's available with a little digging.
Paul
https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Athefreshloaf.com+ankarsrum
I don't own an Ank but I have seen some discussion about it on the Mixer-Owners group. The discussion also has some links to YouTube videos that might be helpful:
https://groups.io/g/Mixer-Owners/topic/96303907
I posted questions about the Bosch Compact there before I purchased one over a year ago. You might get some good advice from the members.
I got my Ankarsrum last year when I had to start making dough balls that were a bit unwieldy by hand. That said, I had never used a different mixer before, so my learning curve came from a place of ignorance - so I didn't have to unlearn anything. Thus far, I've enjoyed using my Ankarsrum and have no regrets, but I could definitely see how it could introduce more variables than many other mixers. To reduce some of those variables, I have only used the roller and scraper, and have never used the dough hook.
I've also limited my hydration range to between 62%-80%. I'm tempted to push both boundaries, but want to master that range first before having too many variables to be able to identify where new problems arise. I take notes with each dough I create, so as to know how I want to tweak the next iteration.
For the roller, I tend to move it in proportional to the size of the dough ball. The bigger the ball, the closer I have it to the center. for a 700-800g ball, it's usually around 1" away from the side of the bowl, and then make slight adjustments as needed to get the dough to respond. For bigger dough balls, I tend to start out about 2"+ away. Occasionally I also pull the roller to the center of the bowl to get any dough that doesn't appear to be mixing as much.
I will say my biggest variable I have yet to figure out is the flour I am using. For example, I tend to have to go longer and faster when using King Arthur Bread Flour to get the dough ball to come together, as opposed to Cairnspring Mills Trailblazer. The latter comes together rather quickly for me regardless of the hydration. That is what I've been playing with on my recent loaves and pizzas.
With all that being said, take what I have with a grain of flour :-) . I know there are many people on here with far more experience and expertise than me. I just wanted to give you my perspective as a fellow rather new Ank owner. I would say I am still in the learning curve for sure, but I am enjoying the education as I go. That said, when I was doing my research as to which mixer to get, I definitely found that this one could be rather divisive.
Don't give up. I have owned a number of mixers, and the Ank is near the top of the list. I originally had a KA, then had a Bosch Universal, and while they worked a little differently, I didn't have any great problems adjusting to the Ank. . If you have specific questions let me know or send me a pm. My general process is to weigh out the ingredients, then put them in the bowl and used the roller and scraper ( I only used the hook just once ). In terms of setting the roller, once the dough comes together, you want the roller to be set so that it doesn't squish the dough so much that it comes out of the bowl. Since I typically made the same amount of dough each time, I just set it once and didn't adjust it, though as NumbWhilstle says, once or twice at the beginning, I would push the roller to the center to make sure I got all the flour and dough incorporated. I would set the timer for what I thought was the right time, then came back and checked when it stoped, and if it needed a little more time, I would go another minute or so. I had the earlier 450 watt version of the Ank, and so I would set the speed dial to about 2/3 rds, IIRC. The dough always came out very supple - it is a very gentle kneading process, the machine never strained or walked around like the KA, and I never found a size it wouldn't handle , unlike the Bosch Universal ( I didn't have the Plus ) where with certain sizes and hydrations, the dough would wrap around the center column and not knead at all. I made bagels and pasta dough once or twice in the Ank, but I don't think that ultra low hydration is where it excels, though again, it did knead it, it just seemed a bit clunky. Again, feel free to PM me if you have any particular questions, or want me to duplicate a particular recipe or process. Full disclosure , while I really think the Ank is great, I splurged last year on a Famag IM 5S, and the dough coming out of that is just slightly better. If I never bought the Famag, I would still be happily using the Ank.
Hi Barry:
Can I pick your brains please?
I just bought an Ankarsrum with the idea of making sougrdough (as well as other things).
My first attempt did not go well. I tried a recipe from "The Perfect Loaf" (50/50 recipe). I COULD NOT get the autolyse to do anything but form a clump around the centre of the bowl, so ended up sticking my hands in the bowl, and manipulating it. After resting; adding the levian, and water was a lost cause. It just splashed around the bowl.
I am now reading about Fermentolyse (adding everything except the salt in the begining), and wondering if that is a better way to go.
Any thoughts, or sugestions?
Thank You
Ben
Ben, first, stay with it a while longer , IMO , that Ank is a great mixer, handled everything I through at it . First, when I autolyse , I normally put the flour and water in the mixing bowl and use a spatula to mix. I am not trying to knead at all, just trying to make sure there are no dry bits of flour. You can use the Ank to do that, though you may need to push the roller arm to the middle once or twice while running at low speed to get it to pick up any dough in the center. Then cover the bowl and rest for 20 minutes. Once that is done, you should have a dough that has strengthed at bit just from resting, and the Ank should have no trouble when you add the levian. You can ignore the recipe suggestion about adding a splash of water. There are some machines - like the KA, that can have trouble with high hydration recipes and the solution is to hold back some of the water at first- so it will knead like a lower hydration dough, then add the remaining water towards the end, this method also works where you are trying to build a lot of strength in a short time ( which is easier with a lower hydration ) but want a dough with a higher hydration. This is called bassignage or double hydration. IMO, that is not want you want to do with a Bosch or Ank since they both rely on friction on the outer surface of the dough to generate the kneading action, and adding water after a dough ball will form with reduce the friction and let it just splash around the bowl.
So step by step - first, I put all the water in the bowl. Then I add the flour and either use the Ank at low speed, or just a spatual, mix until you see no dry flour. Cover and rest. Then I take the bowl, put it back on the scale, use a spatula to move the dough so there is a dry area, add the salt there ( I am making a dry area so I can weigh the salt as I add it , if I overdo it , and can scoop it out or you can just weigh the salt separately ) then add the levian. I have the older Ank , so I mix at a low speed for a minute or two. I don't get too precise about adjusting the arm , if it is set so close to the rim that the dough squeezes up the side of the bowl and out the top, that is too far, if it is so close to the middle it doesn't squish the dough at all, that is too close to the middle. At about 3 minutes into the video here, you can see the action https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqEbfjj7zug Here is another one that has a good camera angle - at around 2 minutes in, he demonstrates moving the kneading arm, at around 6 min in, there is a good shot of the kneading action https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xzhW0m3Mxg , though I would generally not mess with the arn or the scraper as much as he does, just once or twice in the beginning, then I set the timer and come back later. BTW, I didn't watch either video all the way through - just liked the location of the kneading arm in the second video.
So far i have owned a KA, Bosch Universal, Bosch Concept, Bosch Compact,Ank, and now I have a Famag. The Famag gives a tiny bit nicer dough ( for nearly twice the price ) and can not handle general mixing things that the Ank can do, and the Ank was the most dependable for me, no matter the hydration or the size of the dough, the Ank would knead it . So keep on trying.
Hi Ben, I do mostly as Barry does. I’m extremely happy with my Ankarsrum Assistent having come from a KA mixer that the gears were starting to go on me. There is definitely a learning curve and I think a lot of new bakers using the Ankarsrum Assistent are looking for signs of good gluten development that we would typically see with the KA, things like the dough smoothing out and cleaning the bowl. Because of the roller’s ridges, the dough doesn’t necessarily look smooth and because the dough is pressed against the side of the bowl by the roller the dough doesn’t necessarily clean the bowl. Every few minutes of mixing, early on as you’re learning, stop the mixer and feel the dough, do a windowpane test. By doing this you’ll start to be able to identify when the dough is well developed. I have found that as the dough is developing it will start to clean the bowl at the center rather than the sides.
My typical process, is liquid (I include eggs as an liquid) ingredients in the bowl first, always. Then levain and tangzhong (when using). Break these up with my spatula. I often add the salt at this point as well and dissolve it in the liquids. Finally I add the flour(s) and then start the mixer on the lowest speed. I’ll move the roller to the center to pick up all the dry flour. Once almost all the dry flour is gone I’ll give the dough a fermentolyse for 10-20 mins depending on how much whole grain is in the dough.
From there, I’ll start mixing at a higher speed usually 2-3 until the dough is developed stopping to check for development with my hands.
I am not disappointed in the Ankarsrum Assistent whatsoever and have used it for other baking besides bread quite successfully.
Benny
Thanks!!
Thanks!!
Thank you for all of the comments. I’ve been researching all of your suggestions and links. I really want to love this thing, and I’m afraid if I sell it I’ll regret it. But now I’m curious about that Famag, LOL!
I can't say that I blame you. Prior to purchasing the Ank, I was very close to pulling the trigger on a Famag. In the end, I just couldn't justify the extra cost given my dough making frequency and volume. That said, if you can make that justification for yourself, I have yet to hear anyone on any of the forums I belong to say that the Famag wasn't any good. And in the end, if you can justify the purchase, it might get me to consider it going forward... :-D
In for information.
Dave
It is really hard to justify the Famag as a mixer. It does a great job at dough, though again, just silghtly better, IMO, than the Ank. On the other hand, in the Ank, I can whip cream ( I even did it in the SS bowl with the roller and scraper just to see) and with the plastic bowl and the whips, you can use the Ank like a regular mixer, you don't have to raise and lift the bowl like my KA, and don't have to worry about flour flying out when you first start it ( like the KA ). I can't do any of those things in the Famag, it is really a one trick pony. I even tried making pasta dough in the Famag, and haven't tried it again.
The way I would compare these mixers:
KA - good all-rounder that can produce good bread dough
Ank - excels with bread dough, and can be used for other things
Famag - pretty much dedicated to bread doughs, limited usability
I've found the Ank can do everything the KA does, but really shines with bread dough. It was difficult to justify the extra cost with the Famag, given its limited capability. Cost-wise, the Ank sat right between the KA and Famag.
Agree with Roone 100%.
…I have no qualms. If you make a lot of bread you might try out the dough hook which I mostly used until recently. Add all your liquid to the bowl and proof your yeast or mix in your sourdough and other preferments. I find I often need to help thicker preferments break up with a spatula or manually. After that it’s just a matter of adding the dry ingredients. I never get tired of watching the gluten strands develop and stretch as the dough gets twisted around the hook. Can’t say I was ever so aware of the gluten back when I was married to my KitchenAid.
I am using the roller and scraper (“dough cutter” per manufacturer) more often these days since @benito has reported plenty of satisfactory, and usually gorgeous, results. I still opt for the hook when I make very high hydration doughs like ciabatta.
Just a note on the Famag. When I was shopping for a KA replacement, it looked interesting option until I read the specs. At the time it seemed quite heavy, possibly requiring permanent counter real estate, which has never been a concern with KA or Ankarsrum. And I still want to occasionally whip cream or make madeleine batter. Not sure Famag would work there.
Bonne chance,
Phil
I have THIS one,the Electrolux Assistant, the earlier version of the Ank, & it still works great!! Had it for close to 30 years!!
Electrolux Assistant mixer..jpg
After burning through 3 KA mixers over the years, I thought it was time for a change. While I primarily use my mixer for bread doughs, I will make the occasional cake; so, I needed something versatile.
After some research, I shortlisted the Ank and a tabletop spiral. Ended up going with the Ank, with no regrets.
For me this was a game changer. Once I got the hang of it, there was a noticeable improvement in my loaves. The gluten development in the Ank is far beyond what I was able to achieve with the KA.
If you strictly follow bread recipes, you will undoubtedly encounter some problems with the Ank. Instead, I concentrate on what I am trying to achieve at each step of the mixing process - regardless of time and speed. This way, the process becomes more instinctual, rather than a set of fixed instructions.
My advice is to stick with it and experiment.
My only regret in purchasing the Ank, is that I didn't do it years ago.
Just to chime in that I found the Ank easier to use for bread than the KA. With the KA , I had to worry about it walking on the counter, and the way you load flour ( I had the lift bowl ) was a pain. I set the arm on the Ank once and hardly ever changed it, and having the timer shut off the mixer made it easy to walk away and do other things.
Count me in as a convert to the Ankarsrum Assistent. There is definitely a learning curve. I only use the roller and did try the dough hook, but I feel that the roller emulates hand mixing and is less harsh on the dough. The signs of gluten development with the Ankarsrum Assistent are different than with the KA. We are often advised to watch for the dough to release from the sides of the bowl, that isn’t a sign that you’ll see unless your dough is quite low hydration with the Ankarsrum Assistent. Instead, when mixing at 2-3 o’clock I find that you’ll start to see that the dough releases from the center of the bowl more and more. Also you won’t necessarily see the dough looking smooth because of the grooves in the roller. It is helpful to periodically stop the machine and do a windowpane test to check for gluten. Do this often when you’re starting out and you’ll start to see what the dough looks like in different stages of gluten development. Once out of the bowl a letterfold or a few slap and folds you’ll see how smooth the dough actually is.
To realize i would never look back. Way better (for mixing dough) than my KA. That said, I'm not getting rid of my KA, it does plenty of other things.
Don't give up! I've been using the Assistent for 2 years. Base recipe is 1000 g flour and 71% hydration.
- I only use roller and blade
- Speeds (using the marks on the dial)
Initial Mix
Level 1 x 1 min = Roller ~ 1.75 inch from bowl edge
Rest x 1 min
Level 1 x 3 min
Rest x 1 min
Level 3 x 3 min - Move Roller 1/2 way closer to bowl edge
Rest x 1 min
Level 1 x 1 min Move roller to bowl edge
- window pane test