The Fresh Loaf

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Baguettes "Monge" (thanks to Janedo)

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dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Baguettes "Monge" (thanks to Janedo)

Baguettes "Monge"


Baguettes "Monge"

 

I got a (very) few actual crackles in the crust! A thrill!

Baguettes "Monge" Crust

Baguettes "Monge" Crust

Baguettes "Monge" Crumb

Baguettes "Monge" Crumb

Janedo posted a recipe for Eric Kayser's Baguettes "Monge." See http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/7031/kayeser039s-baguettes-quotmongequot for the recipe, photos and discussion.

I made these with some modifications last weekend, but I wanted to try the recipe sticking as close to Jane's instructions as possible. Last night, I fed my liquid starter with Golden Buffalo and, today, made these baguettes. My conversations with King Arthur Flour indicated that they intended their "French Style Flour" to be an approximation of French Style 65 flour, which Jane's recipe specified. I had a couple of pounds, so that is what I used.

When I mixed the dough, it seemed way too dry. I added about 20 ml more water. The dough was still dry, but I didn't want to deviate too far from the recipe, so I left it at that. The only other change I made was to bake at 500F for the first 7 minutes with steam, then removed my skillet and turned the oven down to 460F. Total bake time was 25 minutes.

I am much happier with my baguette slashing. I knew what to do in theory. This time the main change I made was to focus better. I think I got pretty nice bloom. The crust was the closest I've gotten to date to a classic crisp, crackly baguette crust. I think the higher oven temperature was necessary for this, at least in my oven. The crumb was actually better than my first effort, which was with higher hydration, but it was still not as open as I would have liked.

The taste is very nice. Nothing wrong with it. But it does not have as much sweetness or complexity as I would have liked. I'm not sure this recipe with its very short fermentation can deliver optimal baguette flavor. (Of course, I haven't tasted Jane's baguettes!).

The quest for a better baguette continues, but this is my personal best to date.

David

Comments

weavershouse's picture
weavershouse

Just beautiful to look at. I'm going to try the "500F for 7 min. with steam" next time I do baguettes and hope for that beautiful crust. Great job.                                                                        weavershouse

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I am convinced that a really high temperature in necessary to get the oven spring and bloom. The temperature drops 50 degrees when I open the oven door to put loaves in, spritz, take the skillet out, etc. So the actually temperature is lower than 500F most of the time, probably more like 460F. 

So, the higher initial  temp. setting is really just a compensation. 

David

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

I am sure the flavor you are looking for will come with more experimentation!

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Thanks, Paddyscake! 

I'm surely going to continue experimenting with baguettes, but the truth is I prefer the flavor of sourdoughs with some whole wheat and/or rye to plain white bread these days. 

Baguettes are such a wonderful medium for developing shaping and scoring skill though, I can't resist the challenge. 

David

Eli's picture
Eli

David, those are beautiful!! I see you did achieve the crackled crust that we remarked on recently! They really are gorgeous. Do you use a lame or razor to slash?

Eli

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I'm getting there, slowly but surely.  

I used a cheapo plastic-handled lame with a non-replaceable curved razor blade. 

David

SylviaH's picture
SylviaH

Hello everyone,  I look in on this site quite often and really enjoy it.  I've been baking bread for a  lot of years and never had any idea how it really should be done..My mother and I just just kneaded up our dough and made sandwich loaves...she loved to make her French Bread loaves and lots of Irish soda bread weekly.  Then one day I found this flour I really liked...it worked in my bread machine and the loaves would turn out  nicely....when using other flours  had failed...it was called King Arthur Flour.  I also noticed on the bag that I could get a free catalog.  I sent for it.  Then I noticed a bread machine called the Zojurushi..I ordered it and lots of other goodies.  I was hooked...and really liked just using the machine for kneading.  How I wished my mom was still alive to see what these little machines could do to dough. Then one day I tried KA Ciabatta recipe and it turned out wonderful...but I still didn't know that leaving it in the frig overnite and a wet dough and steam made all these great holes...I would just tell myself...sure seems like the wetter the dough the better!...then I started surfing bread sites, tried the no knead bread...that helped me to see what steam, wet dough and fermenting could do...I ordered a La Clouche....I bought BBA, and many other popular bread books...I have quite a collection of cook books....Well, I have been having so much fun making bread lately and will always be learning...oh yes, my kitchen looked like a lab when I started making my own starter for sour doughs.  Never thought I'd be leaning my ear down to hear the bread crackel.  Well, for Christmas my daughter gave me a wood fired pizza oven for my back yard....Oh Boy!  Maybe someday I'll learn more about using this PC and be able to post some pictures of my bread.  This is so much fun...thank you all for your great pictures and advice, recipes, everything.

Sylvia

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, Sylvia! 

Welcome to TFL! 

You should post this message in the "Introductions and Ideas" forum. More folks will read it and be able to meet you. 

You can get there by clicking on the following link: 

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/add/forum/5 

I'd love to hear about what you're baking and about your pizza oven! 

David

audra36274's picture
audra36274

I hate to have to get stuck into ordering it, what with shipping and all, but the closest it my house is an hour away. I have been making several loaves on a day and ran out of KA and used regular a.p. and the results were amazing. I even took pictures. The KA really out raised and out did the regular flour. It was a way cool experiment that just happened by me running out of flour. So now I now.  Hey , congrats on the pizza oven! Let us know how you like using it!

                                                                                      Audra

Janedo's picture
Janedo

I don't know if you missed that bit, but I sent you the recipe before trying it myself. Of course sending it made me want to try them because I do baguettes up similarly but not quite the same. I wrote in the blog entry that I found the dough too dry and added a good amount extra as well but since I didn't know how american flour would react, didn't want to change the recipe.

Your breads are beautiful and many would be happy to get  your results. But I do  know what you mean by not being a REAL baguette. Real ones are long, crunchy with very light, airy crumb. The only thing that has been bugging me lately is that since we eat sourdough on a daily basis, even a good baguette is BLAND to me! I have some good baguette recipes but never make them because over here we don't even want them! ha ha!

The other thing that is bugging me and when I have some time I'll write a blog entry about it, is the difference in flour. I have made several american recipes and they were ALL awful! I don't get it. The firm starter takes all the taste away, makes a crumb that nooone likes and the bread doesn't seem to do as well. I have a number of great books and I am getting seriously frustrated. My husband begged me at lunch to STOOOOOP the experiments. 

But, when I have some time I'll do up a blog entry on flour. I have all the examples and you'll all be able to see color, etc.

Jane 

 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, Jane. 

I recall you making that comment about the dough being dry.  

My next baguettes are probably going to be sourdough, maybe with Reinhart's SF SD formula and a pain de compagne-type flour mix. I agree entirely regarding "bland," and so does my wife! 

David

edh's picture
edh

David,

Those are beautiful! I too made these again yesterday (I did take pictures, but haven't yet mastered the art of getting them online). The whole family really liked them the first time, but I just can't stop myself from fiddling with things.

Yesterday I made them again, but this time built up more starter than was needed, but used it all. The resulting formula was:

288 g liquid starter (125% hydration)

316 g bread flour

100g kamut flour

3/4 tsp instant yeast

10 g salt

166 g water

The dough was perfect; a little tacky, but nice to handle. I agree that these aren't the light, airy creations that I think of as a classic baguette, but I love the flavor. My crust doesn't come close to yours; the only way I can get a really good crust in my gas oven is to cover the loaves for the first part of the bake, and I haven't figured out how to fit baguettes under my roasting pan (yet). At any rate, I really liked using more starter (sort of like using a bigger proportion of poolish) for the taste.

Janedo; I've also received impassioned pleas for a cessation of experiments on more than one occasion, not with this one though. Thank you for the recipe!

edh

 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, edh. 

I have yet to try this, but I must do so. The results others have shown are just wonderful. 

David

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I spoke with one of the King Arthur Flour customer service people earlier in the week about the challenges of trying to exchange recipes across the continents. She had some interesting observations.

King Arthur has blended some flours to try to replicate French flours. For example, the "French Style Flour" is supporsed to be like Type 65. KA "European Artisan" flour has a little lower ash but has added ascorbic acid and a little white whole wheat.

In fact, it is impossible to totally duplicate French flours with American wheat. The grain is different. I assume different strains are planted, and the terroire is different, for sure.

Jeff Hamelman, KA's chief baker has been a coach for "Team America" in the Coupe de Monde. Their greatest challenge is practicing with American flours and then having to adapt their formulas to the French flours they have to use for the competition.

The customer service person suggested I e-mail Jeff to get his suggestions, and I have done so. He has not responded as yet, but I am hoping he does. I'll share whatever he has to say with TFL, if I hear back.
 

David

SylviaH's picture
SylviaH

SYLVIAH

Thank you David... everyone is so and helpful! 

SylviaH's picture
SylviaH

SYLVIAH  Hi, It's me again,  I'am making this baguette recipe using the starter recipe from a site I found on Tartelette's recipe of Baquette Monge...I'm pretty new to using gram and converting...a part of the recipe says to use 27 cl. warm water....I can't find what (cl) means or how much water that would require...it also says add 10 cl water to the yeast...Can't wait to make these baquettes...I have my starter going...it takes 3 days.  I hope mine turn out as nice as yours.

Thank you

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hope that helps.
 David

SylviaH's picture
SylviaH

SYLVIAH  It sure does...thank you kindly for your fast reply.

Eli's picture
Eli

I have been making these a couple weeks now and they have become a hit with the neighbors. This is really a great recipe, however, I have been taking liberties with the water. Thanks David and Jane. I will try and post some pix the next batch.

 

Eli

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, Eli.

I'm happy your baguettes are a hit. I'd love to see pictures of them.

I've moved on to baguettes based on Anis Bouabsa's formula which Jane brought back as a souvenir of her trip to Paris. If you haven't followed that journey, I'd recommend it. My latest iteration, and the best to date, is in my Blog Entry "Pain de Campagne." While I shaped the dough into a batard, the formula should make delicious baguettes.


David

Larry Clark's picture
Larry Clark

 On our first day in Paris, I picked up a tourist magazine in our hotel lobby. There was an article about the top ten boulangeries in Paris.  By shear stroke of luck, our hotel was within three blocks  of #1 and 2. Number 1 was Le Boulanger de Monge and on my first visit I thought I had died and gone to heaven. It did take a day or two to learn how to order  "coffee american grande" or other wise you would get served a thimble sized cup of espresso. I must say boulangerie #2 was a very distant numer 2.

 

Larry 

 

 

Janedo's picture
Janedo

Hey, it's interesting going back to look at this recipe and comparing to the Anis sourdough. This one has way less water and more yeast. Just a few manipulations of this recipe and it evolves into the new one. So, Eli, you must try it! The dough is harder to handle but it accepts imperfection.

I'm hoping to have an excuse to HAVE to go back up to Paris in the near future. Just waiting for a phone call. Keep your fingers crossed, please! Then I'll go check out some more bakeries. I also promised to write Anis and send some pics if I managed to do his baguette. He sounded open to letting me and my friend hang out and learn some stuff from him.

Jane