March 7, 2022 - 2:36pm
"Drought cracks"
Hi,
Below is Rus Brot's Ukrainian Palyanitsa baked in a cold oven, covered, @425F x 55mins.
97% Beehive AP
3% Whole rye CLAS
~63% hydration
2% salt
I've made this bread numerous times (in a preheated oven), and it never turned out this ugly. Could someone please tell me what's causing these ugly cracks all over the loaf after it cools down? How can I prevent them? I can't gift a "ragged" loaf like this to someone.
Thx,
Yippee
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Actually, this is one of a desirable characteristics of some breads like the Vietnamese binh mi with a thin and crackly crust. Could this be a result of a lower baking temp and steam?
Another possibility would be since you bake it a lower temp for so long which a thin crust was formed, when it was removed from the oven in a room with high humility it would sort of creating a thermal shock, shattering the crust. That is how those Vietnamese baguettes are made, they bake it at around 400 F with a lot of steam and then they brush butter on the crust upon removal and so once they cool the crust would crack.
I went through my bookmarks and found this:
https://youtu.be/R9FlUi7V1C0
I don't understand what he's saying, but I think the secret lies in the bread improver.
Yippee
https://www.puratos.us/en/products/s-500-ultra-no-ada
Interestingly, I've been thinking about converting this formula to make bánh mì from time to time because I haven't had any good bánh mì (bread), not even one, from the Vietnamese sandwich shops around here, no matter how good the fillings are. The bread is ALWAYS tasteless. Now that you've mentioned it, their bread is indeed crackly (but bland).
Do you happen to have an authentic bread recipe for bánh mì that you can share?
Thx,
Yippee
Sorry I have never made one, but I have been eating it since I was a kid, that's the reason I got into baguette making (not long ago) in the first place, apparently, somehow, I got off track onto making the French version instead. I am part Vietnamese, but I am very rusty with the language. You are in CA, right? My mom told me southern CA (Orange County?) had the best Banh Mi outside of Vietnam. Anyway, I was planning to get into making it one of these days per the YouTube recipe linked below, she has English subtitles so it should not be too bad to follow. Have fun!
Cách làm Bánh Mì vỏ mỏng giòn tan ruột xốp không phụ gia - Công Thức Bất Bại của Chủ Tiệm Bánh Mì VN - YouTube
Looking forward to your bake! Maybe a FLAS version as well? 😉😉😉
Yippee
Oh yeah using sourwort is part of my bread making nowadays.
Looks quite simple and delish; I think I'm going to try it!
Yippee
Oh yeah that girl knows how to make good food, she might be in your neck of woods too. Have fun!
Hi Ming,
I think this recipe will make good Bánh mì. You may make it with FLAS instead.
Yippee
Good find Yippee. Oh yeah, these French rolls kind of like those Vietnamese mini baguettes. The French occupied Vietnam for a very long time so there was a lot of culture influence there with bread and other stuff. With that said though, most traditional Vietnamese dishes are authentically Vietnamese which I would love to eat every day.
You are really a big fan of CLAS don't you? Again, see if you can make some sourwort/FLAS instead, as you might like it even better, it is made easily with just malt and water.
Thanks!
Found two things very interesting in this video. Could only read the subtitles, so maybe she explained it verbally.
When shaping, she only touched the ends of the dough and left the main part of the roll untouched. I imagine that keeps it "loose" and maybe results in a softer crumb?
Her pre-heat time was very short. As she explained, every oven is different and she's not using a baking stone or steel so her heat up time will be faster. With my oven, after 10 minutes at 550 deg F, I'm guessing I'd only be at maybe 300 deg F, and that's only the air temperature. The oven walls would be cooler. Is this a form of the cold start bake? I didn't see any kind of upper shield, so her upper heating element would provide the browning.
They look delicious!
Good observations Troy. I just rewatched her shaping and indeed she rolled it up from both sides without putting any pressure in the middle, that could be a key to having a fluffy crumb. A Vietnamese baguette is supposed to have a very thin crust and fluffy crumb that would melt easily in the mouth without much chewing, that's the beauty of this type of bread.
Yeah that 10 min oven pre-heat does not make sense, I do have a baking steel and pizza stone so I know exactly what you mean there. I noticed she sprayed water three times during baking so that might be another key to getting a thin cracking crust.
Not sure if it was subtitled but she claimed she learned to make these Vietnamese baguettes from a bakery owner in Vietnam if I understand her correctly. I will probably need to ask my mom to watch this video and translate everything for me :).
Yippee, I think it looks gorgeous!
Yippee
Actually, these cracks are expected on some Polish breads. I personally am always happy when I get them on wheat and white rye
As far as I remember some nuances of fermentation and baking technique promote these cracks, steam at the beginning of baking and spraying with cold water right after taking out of the oven
since it was baked inside a graniteware roaster in a cold oven. Would
to learn more about the related nuances of fermentation and baking techniques if you don't mind sharing.
Thx,
Yippee
I will need to look into Polish baking websites, maybe ask some people. If I find anything constructive, I'll let you know
which might mean the gas cells in the crumb are too large or cooled very fast. How much gluten is in the flour? Perhaps a knock down during the bulk rise might make a finer more stable crumb. Just guessing here. Or perhaps turning down the heat in the last half of the bake.
These cracks don't happen with dense loaves so they are often a sign of an airy crumb. Did the loaf "sing" while cooling? The escaping gas can make a delightful whistle. :) Crumb would be interesting to see.
Product SpecificationsProtein / 10.5%
Ash / 0.55%
Variety / Organic Hard Red Winter Wheat
Treatment / Malted with Organic Malted Barley Flour
Well-mixed fine crumb. Icy from the freezer:
I wasn't paying attention to the "singing". Left it on the counter to cool, and was shocked to see a "mutated" loaf when I returned!
Yippee
The sign of a well-made dough by some bakers' measures, including myself.
Most of my breads crack and I agree with Mini, it's something that typically only happens with lighter loaves.
I've got an interesting picture to share, bear with me while I hunt for it...
How did it happen, Michael? What are the characteristics of your bread (and bake)?
Yippee
These pictures are dated Feb 20th, 2014!
It was one of my early frays into baking with durum wheat.
No doubt I used steam. That's about all I can tell you...
I do believe the short, inextensible nature of durum wheat gluten presents itself, signified by the small and numerous crust pieces. I think larger surface cracks would signify softer wheat.
So beautiful!!!!
A stray fluke I assure you!
As Michael says, generally considered a positive feature, at least in the UK. The sign of a good bake, especially with a traditional white tin loaf:
Lance
You've reminded me of the English toast bread featured in some bread books. They do have cracks!
Yippee
Yippee - What malt do you use in the Clas recipe, diastatic, or non-diastatic malt. I like to try this recipe, maybe this weekend.
Vstyn
from a home brewing store:
Yippee
Nice! My homemade ry malt looks identical
Yippee -
When making the Clas, how did you cover the sourdough surface, using food film to prevent contact with air (anaerobic conditions) I did buy the rye malt at a home brewing store.
Thank you
Vstyn
Like so:
https://youtu.be/iPQV8qcwK1M
Yippee
Yippe - Thanks for the help.