Pan bread made with spelt-FLAS
This time I prepared 'flas' using spelt malt (by BestMalz) instead of the usual rye (just trying different malts):
Yield: 419g, color: beige (rye turns out darker brown/caramel), taste: less green-apple (rye) and more earthy/wheaty, pH: same as rye 3.6-3.8
Bread Formula
200 flour (bread 13-14%)
90 water
60 spelt flas
1.6 instant dry yeast
4 salt
+
15 wheat bran (soaked in the fridge ~24 hours and strained just before use)
Timeline
0000 Mix all ingredients together using stand mixer for 4-6 min (start of bulk - DDT 28C|82F)
0030 Laminate
0100 Roll&Fold (no excessive streching required) in basin where dough rests
0130 Shape and place in 1Lt Pan (start of proof - Brod&Taylor setting 35C|95F no humidity disk as in bulk)
0230 Bake (3 min at 250C|482F for spring, then covered at 200C|392F for 57 min)
Conclusion
Rye and spelt malts are interchangeable with no great differences in the end result. Maybe spelt gives a more wheaty-warm sense in taste than rye and a tad less of a sourness.
I do have a question about using malt to get the process started. And this also goes for CLAS as well. Malt is used when making these concentrated lactic acid starters from scratch. The enzymatic activity from the malt helps kickstart the process. However sourdough starters already have a healthy level of lactic acid producing bacteria. Since FLAS and CLAS are basically sourdough starter without the yeast and used alongside commercial yeast would it be possible to use a sourdough starter for the very same process as the malt? It is the conditions that favour the bacteria but inhibits the yeast enabling one to make a FLAS or CLAS much quicker then a sourdough starter. Can one use a bit of sourdough starter to begin the process but keep it under the same conditions that only favour the bacteria?
Different conditions, but here it didn't speed up the making of CLAS...
But it doesn't take long to make it anyway, just a day or two.
Can we do away with the malt when using starter? If it doesn't speed it up in any way and one make a starter (which has lactic acid bacteria in it) without using malt then just what is the malt for?
So either it does nothing in which case it's not needed at all. Or it does something, either adding in lactic acid bacteria or provides a better environment for lactic acid bacteria to proliferate, in which case it does speed up the process. And if all one needs is lactic acid bacteria then by adding in some starter but keeping it at a temperature which only favours the bacteria then that should help.
I'm still not quite sure what CLAS or FLAS brings to loaf. It takes a couple of days to make. One has to keep it at a very specific temperature to work and then one has to add in yeast. So you're going through all that to make half a starter. I can get a starter going, bacteria + yeast, in the same time. It has bacteria and yeast in it. It leavens the dough and it's very tasty. And it can be done very easily without the need to keep it at very specific conditions. I've made CLAS before and i'm not sure what anyone is gaining. The only thing I can think of is the ease of using yeast (for some people) with some added sourdough flavour. But then again I haven't ever really come across any difficulty when it comes to sourdough. It rises very well, has really lovely flavour, it's easy to make and keep.
You don't need malt to make CLAS, although adding some malt powder can help. For FLAS, I don't know... Starter has flour, so it wouldn't be flourless.
then it has some flour in it. It's just very hydrated.
Thank you 'Abe' for your kind comment.
The way I approach it in my head, is by separating the two different types of starter. On one hand we have the widely used type I ('sourdough') and on the other the type II (with subtypes depending on the presence of flour in them or not, like 'clas' and 'flas' respectively). Although I have not tried it myself I' m certain you can go from II ---> I and why not vica-versa I --> II (which is what I think you' re pondering about). But what would be the reason behind all that, I wonder. Maybe II --> I would make some sense so that the LAB show who's the boss in the neighborhood from the start.
Type II has minimal leavening power, so one has to use yeast (and who's best suited for this job than baker's yeast). What's wrong with that? Type II will infuse the dough with aromas and acidity and let the yeast only do the dirty job (lifting). And it will do this much faster than its wild siblings (a race horse in comparison).
I would and do keep things separate, at least in my kitchen. Type I produces unbeatable bread for centuries now. On the other hand Type II is more versatile (less prescheduling), faster and less demanding with similar results.
Your breads look very nice indeed and you have peaked my curiosity. I hear what you say about the reasoning behind it. Get the flavour of sourdough concentrated and then add in bakers yeast to do the dirty work. Makes sense.
What also makes sense to me is that i've got a starter with lactic acid bacteria and to make a CLAS or FLAS it can be treated, under certain conditions, to inhibit the yeast and to concentrate the lactic acid bacteria.
Something worth trying.
Thank you.
I think it might be different LABs that you get at around 40C and at ambient temperatures when making a traditional starter... Not sure.
All the LABS in all starters are coming from the same flour so all starters should be capable of producing this. It's worth a try anyway.
Well, for sure adding some regular starter will prevent any unwanted growth, which probably can occur if you don't block access to oxygen well enough. So it would be useful in that sense at least. Whether it would make the process work better, that someone just has to try and see! I don't have any whole malt, so can't really try this...
Sure it's worth the try, provided one has the will and time to pursuit it (surely some failures are lurking round the corner!).
Prepare your sourdough starter for the shock of its life! Increased hydration beyond its imagination and above-Caribbean temperatures..... God knows how it will react.
Have you ever heard of CLAS/FLAS being used together with yeast water in place of the commercial yeast?
I remember that Abe had this same idea a long time ago :) I don't remember seeing anyone doing it though.
I did have that idea while back. Hasn't come to fruition - yet! My idea was a "Frankenstein" starter. CLAS + Yeast Water for lactic acid bacteria + strength of yeast water to produce the best of both worlds in an all wild yeast bread. In starters bacteria outnumber the yeast 100:1. This way one can have a healthy amount of both!
By all means Jon... be my guest and experiment :)
This is cool to see that it would work the same with a different malt. Did you add sugar to the mixture during the 2-3 day mashing process as described by the German article? Thanks.
No 'Ming'. I do not use sugar at any stage in my mash brewing. It doesn't seem to need it and also I like to keep things as minimal as possible. Just water and malt. In 36-48 hours it has soured just fine. So I save the sugar for my cakes!!!
That is what I thought because you did not mention it in your original "sour wort" recipe. I started my mash brewing last night with an over estimated temp ending up with around 135-degree F this morning so I had to dial it back to around 110-degree F. Looking forward to baking with it for the first time this weekend. Thank you for sharing your recipe with us.