The Fresh Loaf

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Not doubling Day 8

Yeazsty's picture
Yeazsty

Not doubling Day 8

I know starters can take up to 14 days to double but I need advice as this is my first time establishing a starter.

Temp in the kitchen would be on the cool side as it is Winter but it is winter in Brisbane Australia which is 22-24 degrees Celsius.

I am up to day 8 and feed half whole wheat half plain flour both organic, I use filtered water.  I currently feed at a ratio of 1:3:3 every 24 hours at 630pm.  It has bubbles and rises but only the smallest amount.  The picture I am putting up is today Day 8 and it has fallen slightly not as much as you think because the residue is from when I mixed the flour last night.  The starting point/line is the top of the black tape.

Worried I may be underfeeding but also don't want to over feed.

Look forward to your suggestions. 

On a side note I was going to place in the oven with a light but the light in the oven does not work.

 

gavinc's picture
gavinc

Skip feeding it for a day (to lower pH), then feed once a day, whole rye or whole wheat until stong again. When establishing a new started and it's past the smelly leuconostoc and friends bacteria, I feed 56g starter, 28g whole rye flour and 28g water until it gets yeasty and smells of bread or beer.  After that, I transition to maintenance feeding 1:1:1. I like 125% hydration so I feed 1:1:1.25.

If you used whole wheat flour to start off with, then use that.  When you get to the maintenance stage, you can transition to white flour if you prefer, but not before.

 

 

 

Yeazsty's picture
Yeazsty

Thanks for your suggestion.

So when would I transition to 1:1:1 would that be when it is doubling? and would the 1:1:1 be for an example 56g starter with 56g four and 56g water?

gavinc's picture
gavinc

I made a typo that I've corrected.  You can pick your own total of starter to maintain. Some here only maintain 75g in total, but mine for the first month or so is 47g starter, 47g flour and 58g water as you want to build strength and complexity with two feedings a day at room temperature.

 

Yeazsty's picture
Yeazsty

Thank you, I have only been establishing a small starter as I didn't want too much wastage.  Going forward you mention that during the first month you would feed twice a day.  This is also something I have questioned as some people suggest 24hr feeds while others suggest 12hr feeds when establishing or are you talking about feeding your established starter and maintaining twice daily in the first month because it is not refrigerated?

gavinc's picture
gavinc

I don't refrigerate until it is a strong starter. This takes about a month at least. My advice and reasons are based on Debra Wink's research papers. You can find them on this site.

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10856/pineapple-juice-solution-part-1

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/10901/pineapple-juice-solution-part-2

http://www.thefreshloaf.com//node/10375/lactic-acid-fermentation-sourdough

 

gavinc's picture
gavinc

Keep us posted as to what worked and what didn't in re-activating the starter.

Cheers,

Gavin

Yeazsty's picture
Yeazsty

Ok! 

I left the starter for a day as suggested and then started my new feeding schedule as you had mentioned above.  I checked it this morning 12hours later, it had risen a little.  I was going to wait another 12 hours to feed but I just check on it now and it had obviously nearly doubled in size and \slide marks have appeared so it has risen and fallen, there is also a crust, it smells quite acidic and definitely has more bubbles.  

Should I feed again now before the 24hours or wait the full 24 hours as it is showing all signs of being hungry?

Thanks

gavinc's picture
gavinc

Ok to start feeding it again. Good to see the activity again...

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Three Suggestions -

  1. Lower your feed ratio. During the early stages of starter building larger feed ratios may tend to dilute the microbes.
  2. Take some of your original starter and try a second one for comparison. Example 20g starter + 12g water + 20g flour. The drier starter will produce a more visible rise.
  3. Keep in a warmer place (78-80F / 25-26C) . 

All of the above suggestions will cause your starter to rise and recede much faster than 24 hr. Once the starter starts to recede it is time to re-feed. If it is cycling too fast to rest overnight, you can either place it is a cooler place or put it in the fridge overnight. Don’t let the starter completely collapse because the yeast will begin to become over populated by the LAB.

Once your starter matures, it can be stored in the fridge so that it will not require daily feedings.

HTH,
Danny

andykg's picture
andykg

Feed it and then keep it warm while its feeding. Use warm water when you feed to give it a boost and keep it somewhere around 75/80 degrees.

My top oven is 79/80 with the light on and is a perfect temperature for it. Get a cheap thermometer with a sensor and check out the warmer parts of your house like on top of the fridge or in an airing cupboard etc.

Yeazsty's picture
Yeazsty

Just wanted to update the starter progress.  It has been going well, transferred to a new jar.  It is very close to doubling in size it just never quite makes it.  It never floats either but to me it looks active.  I have two more weeks until it has been a month of feeding 1:1:1 two times a day and then I am going to transfer to the fridge.  What feeding regime does everyone take on once in cold storage? And on a side note, the discard from this has been in the fridge for the last few weeks and today it nearly exploded it was very bubbly and was leaking out of the top of the container.