Hey everybody. This is the same kneading and folding video as before, but with Spanish subtitles for the commentary, thanks to fellow FreshLoafian, Joe Martello. I have an Italian and German version in the works, and am looking for someone to transcribe it in French. If you're interested, I can send you the English version in Word, then you can put the matching French sentences underneath the English. Thanks.
That's a very good video presentation. The subtitles don't distract, the timing (for reading them) is good and with the white subs on dark background, the subs have very good contrast for readability. You did much better with sub-titling than some of the commercial studio films I've seen. With this video you may just give bolillos a run for their money down south of the border. Nice job.
So after watching this video several times, not only will I have the techniques down, but I will have learned the Spanish bread terminology. Apparently, amasar is to knead.
Howard and Rosalie, As I was putting the subtitles in, I was trying my to pronounce the words and memorize them the best I could. Repetition is definitely a key with me, but I think it's starting to sink in.
I am new in doing the bread. Can any one tell me why do we fold the dough instead of knock back? I have recepies said that after the first proofing, I have to knead again to knock back some air. I made few times of bread by knocking back (knead 2nd time). I found that my bread rose but still a bit heavy in texture. Did I do any things wrong? I did knead the dough by the Kenwood chef about 5 minutes after the mixing the ingredients about 1 minute and I did 2nd kneading by hand.
Get yourself a copy of Jeffrey Hamelman's book, BREAD, and read carefully pages 4-24 (the 11 steps to baking). Then re-read them, paying particular attention to page 15: Step Four (4) Folding, where he explains the advantages of "folding" vs "knocking down". Everything you need as an entry level home baker is in Hamelman's book and, in it, he lays out the 11 steps in the systematic process of baking; Step 1: Scaling/weighing thru Step 11: Baking. Hammelman's book is an excellent "Techniques" manual and the best investment you'll make if you're serious about the craft.
Not knowing much Spanish, I'm not at all qualified to comment on the translation but it looks good to me. I like that the subtitles don't get in the way of the video itself (exactly the same way that your commentary doesn't get in the way of the video itself).
If I were Spanish speaking, the only thing I'd like to see would be a translation of the subject itself right at the beginning.
-Elizabeth
P.S. Do you think the oil spray in the rising container is really necessary? (I don't.) ...Hamelman on hold at the library. I'm looking forward to reading it.
P.P.S. I'd love to help with the French but unfortunately, I only know enough pour me mettre dans la soupe.
The reason for spraying the inside of your container is to keep the dough from sticking to it and tearing as you empty the dough onto the counter or work surface. Remember, if your dough tears coming out of the container you going to lose some of the precious gas that gives you the nice interior holes. You want to keep the skin of your dougn intact in order to maintain as much of the gas as possible, encapsulated inside the dough, as you stretch and fold though the iterations, down to dividing and shaping. Keeping your dough from tearing and/or sticking to the inside of the container minimizes the possibility of tearing it and losing the built up gas inside.
Yes, I agree with the explanation of the reasons for spraying and folding too. As is the case with both 'techniques' they aren't necessary, but they are helpful and effect the final product. Some people would put them into the 'have to' category if they are looking for a certain type of final product.
Wish you were closer, I'd take you up on being a "plonge'". You're right-on, there are no "have to" categories/techniques. But like I told you before--- your video on "stretch and fold" and "shaping" changed my thinking completely on handling dough. I used to be a "died in the wool puncher downer"...no more...I've seen the light, so to speak...at least I hope it's the light I'm seeing... and not the headlight of an oncoming train. :-)
I did a post about this a while back on my regular blog with photos showing the risen dough falling out of the bowl. Note that I did not spray the bowl, nor has the dough's skin been harmed. Here is one of the photos:
Granted, there is oil in this particular bread dough. But I have similar experiences with dough that is made with just flour, water, yeast and salt. As long as the dough has risen, it just falls out of the bowl.
I understand completely. I didn't mean to sound dogmatic, only that I had had problems with the basic dough that you mentioned (flour, water, levening and salt) sticking to the inside of the container without oiling the container. Like Mark indicated there's many ways to approach the problem. Your photo speaks volumes. Thanks.
Elizabeth, I can tell you from my personal experience, that there are two main factors effecting whether or not I need to oil the bowl: the container and the dough.
container: stainless steel bowls often need to be oiled as do other containers that have (even a slight) texture. Some containers (like the one I use in the ciabatta video) don't need to be oiled initially, but do as they get older and 'scraped down a lot'.
doughs: as you mentioned, doughs with oil often 'fall out of the bowl'. Also doughs that are drier (sandwich loaves) come out of the bowl easier. Doughs that are very wet, like Hamelman's pizza dough, will stick to most surfaces unless flour or oil are added.
At the bakery I used to work at, we never oiled any of our containers, and I can tell you, there was never a single batch that came out of their rising bins without 'some help'. All of our containers were either plastic or stainless steel (mixing bowl). Now I err on the side of caution when working with some doughs, and I think it's helpful for beginners to do the same (which is why it's included in the video).
Obviously this is my own opinion, and I certainly wouldn't suggest anyone change a technique that is already working for them.
Actually, lot of the bread I make is pretty slack. (It's a fault of mine - often my dough is TOO slack) I'll try to remember to grab the camera next time I remove risen slack dough from the bowl.
Maybe it's because of the smoothness of the pyrex that I haven't ever had a problem. Sometimes, slack dough (made with flour, water, salt, yeast only) seems not to want to come out but just a gentle touch along the inside of the bowl to get it started and out it pops. But only if it's finished rising. If it isn't ready, it doesn't want to leave the bowl.
Of course, I'm not in the business to sell my bread, the way that you are, Mark. The amount of dough that I handle at any one time is far less. And if a loaf of my bread is not quite as stellar as I hope, it's not that big a deal.
-Elizabeth
P.S. I used to oil the bowl with sandwich bread when I first started baking bread and then one time, I forgot. Nothing bad happened. It made things so much simpler to continue forgetting.
And then I got into trying to reproduce French bread and read how strict they are about oil in the dough (or rather lack thereof).
There are so many things that we do just because that's what we're supposed to do. Then we do it differently by accident (or maybe even by inspiration) and find out that nothing bad happens....
That's what I really love about bread making. Bread can be so forgiving!
I love the fact that yeast was probably first produced by accident. I can just imagine the conversation in the ancient person's kitchen... "it's doing what?! Put it in the fire to sterilize it so it won't contaminate the rest of the food... [a little later] mmmm, that smells good. Let's try it."
I'm not doubting that it works for you, and if I had any pyrex bowls larger than the weenie ones I have now, I'd try it. I've got a smaller stoneware bowl that's shaped like your pyrex bowl and it seems to work most of the time. No need for photo proof. Happy baking.
I do love my giant pyrex casserole dish. I can't remember where I got it - but I do remember it was on sale. Of course I've never seen another like it and I'll be devastated if it breaks.
I won't be re-doing this particular video in French, but would like some help with translating parts of the DVD I'm working on in French. If that sounds good to you, you can email me at the bakery and I'll let you know when I'm ready for you.
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Muy Bueno!
Mark,
That's a very good video presentation. The subtitles don't distract, the timing (for reading them) is good and with the white subs on dark background, the subs have very good contrast for readability. You did much better with sub-titling than some of the commercial studio films I've seen. With this video you may just give bolillos a run for their money down south of the border. Nice job.
Howard - St. Augustine, FL
Learning Spanish Terminology
So after watching this video several times, not only will I have the techniques down, but I will have learned the Spanish bread terminology. Apparently, amasar is to knead.
Rosalie
I'm learning too
Howard and Rosalie,
As I was putting the subtitles in, I was trying my to pronounce the words and memorize them the best I could. Repetition is definitely a key with me, but I think it's starting to sink in.
-Mark
http://thebackhomebakery.com
Why do we need to fold the dough
Hi Everyone,
I am new in doing the bread. Can any one tell me why do we fold the dough instead of knock back? I have recepies said that after the first proofing, I have to knead again to knock back some air. I made few times of bread by knocking back (knead 2nd time). I found that my bread rose but still a bit heavy in texture. Did I do any things wrong? I did knead the dough by the Kenwood chef about 5 minutes after the mixing the ingredients about 1 minute and I did 2nd kneading by hand.
Thanks.
Hughes S.
Folding is done to preserve the gas in the dough
Hug5901,
Get yourself a copy of Jeffrey Hamelman's book, BREAD, and read carefully pages 4-24 (the 11 steps to baking). Then re-read them, paying particular attention to page 15: Step Four (4) Folding, where he explains the advantages of "folding" vs "knocking down". Everything you need as an entry level home baker is in Hamelman's book and, in it, he lays out the 11 steps in the systematic process of baking; Step 1: Scaling/weighing thru Step 11: Baking. Hammelman's book is an excellent "Techniques" manual and the best investment you'll make if you're serious about the craft.
Howard - St. Augustine, FL
Not knowing much Spanish,
Not knowing much Spanish, I'm not at all qualified to comment on the translation but it looks good to me. I like that the subtitles don't get in the way of the video itself (exactly the same way that your commentary doesn't get in the way of the video itself).
If I were Spanish speaking, the only thing I'd like to see would be a translation of the subject itself right at the beginning.
-Elizabeth
P.S. Do you think the oil spray in the rising container is really necessary? (I don't.) ...Hamelman on hold at the library. I'm looking forward to reading it.
P.P.S. I'd love to help with the French but unfortunately, I only know enough pour me mettre dans la soupe.
Oil Spray?---Affirmative!
The reason for spraying the inside of your container is to keep the dough from sticking to it and tearing as you empty the dough onto the counter or work surface. Remember, if your dough tears coming out of the container you going to lose some of the precious gas that gives you the nice interior holes. You want to keep the skin of your dougn intact in order to maintain as much of the gas as possible, encapsulated inside the dough, as you stretch and fold though the iterations, down to dividing and shaping. Keeping your dough from tearing and/or sticking to the inside of the container minimizes the possibility of tearing it and losing the built up gas inside.
Howard - St. Augustine, FL
Howard, you're hired
Yes, I agree with the explanation of the reasons for spraying and folding too. As is the case with both 'techniques' they aren't necessary, but they are helpful and effect the final product. Some people would put them into the 'have to' category if they are looking for a certain type of final product.
-Mark
http://thebackhomebakery.com
Mark, I check to the power.
Wish you were closer, I'd take you up on being a "plonge'". You're right-on, there are no "have to" categories/techniques. But like I told you before--- your video on "stretch and fold" and "shaping" changed my thinking completely on handling dough. I used to be a "died in the wool puncher downer"...no more...I've seen the light, so to speak...at least I hope it's the light I'm seeing... and not the headlight of an oncoming train. :-)
Howard - St. Augustine, FL
I did a post about this a
I did a post about this a while back on my regular blog with photos showing the risen dough falling out of the bowl. Note that I did not spray the bowl, nor has the dough's skin been harmed. Here is one of the photos:
The post is here: http://etherwork.net/blog/?p=232
Granted, there is oil in this particular bread dough. But I have similar experiences with dough that is made with just flour, water, yeast and salt. As long as the dough has risen, it just falls out of the bowl.
-Elizabeth
Elizabeth, Thank you for your post
I understand completely. I didn't mean to sound dogmatic, only that I had had problems with the basic dough that you mentioned (flour, water, levening and salt) sticking to the inside of the container without oiling the container. Like Mark indicated there's many ways to approach the problem. Your photo speaks volumes. Thanks.
Howard - St. Augustine, FL
oil in the bowl
Elizabeth,
I can tell you from my personal experience, that there are two main factors effecting whether or not I need to oil the bowl: the container and the dough.
container: stainless steel bowls often need to be oiled as do other containers that have (even a slight) texture. Some containers (like the one I use in the ciabatta video) don't need to be oiled initially, but do as they get older and 'scraped down a lot'.
doughs: as you mentioned, doughs with oil often 'fall out of the bowl'. Also doughs that are drier (sandwich loaves) come out of the bowl easier. Doughs that are very wet, like Hamelman's pizza dough, will stick to most surfaces unless flour or oil are added.
At the bakery I used to work at, we never oiled any of our containers, and I can tell you, there was never a single batch that came out of their rising bins without 'some help'. All of our containers were either plastic or stainless steel (mixing bowl). Now I err on the side of caution when working with some doughs, and I think it's helpful for beginners to do the same (which is why it's included in the video).
Obviously this is my own opinion, and I certainly wouldn't suggest anyone change a technique that is already working for them.
-Mark
http://thebackhomebakery.com
Actually, lot of the bread I
Actually, lot of the bread I make is pretty slack. (It's a fault of mine - often my dough is TOO slack) I'll try to remember to grab the camera next time I remove risen slack dough from the bowl.
Maybe it's because of the smoothness of the pyrex that I haven't ever had a problem. Sometimes, slack dough (made with flour, water, salt, yeast only) seems not to want to come out but just a gentle touch along the inside of the bowl to get it started and out it pops. But only if it's finished rising. If it isn't ready, it doesn't want to leave the bowl.
Of course, I'm not in the business to sell my bread, the way that you are, Mark. The amount of dough that I handle at any one time is far less. And if a loaf of my bread is not quite as stellar as I hope, it's not that big a deal.
-Elizabeth
P.S. I used to oil the bowl with sandwich bread when I first started baking bread and then one time, I forgot. Nothing bad happened. It made things so much simpler to continue forgetting.
And then I got into trying to reproduce French bread and read how strict they are about oil in the dough (or rather lack thereof).
C'est Vray
You're correct. It's not a big deal!
Howard - St. Augustine, FL
Nothing bad happened...
There are so many things that we do just because that's what we're supposed to do. Then we do it differently by accident (or maybe even by inspiration) and find out that nothing bad happens....
Rosalie
That's what I really love
That's what I really love about bread making. Bread can be so forgiving!
I love the fact that yeast was probably first produced by accident. I can just imagine the conversation in the ancient person's kitchen... "it's doing what?! Put it in the fire to sterilize it so it won't contaminate the rest of the food... [a little later] mmmm, that smells good. Let's try it."
-Elizabeth
no need, Elizabeth
I'm not doubting that it works for you, and if I had any pyrex bowls larger than the weenie ones I have now, I'd try it. I've got a smaller stoneware bowl that's shaped like your pyrex bowl and it seems to work most of the time. No need for photo proof. Happy baking.
-Mark
http://thebackhomebakery.com
I do love my giant pyrex
I do love my giant pyrex casserole dish. I can't remember where I got it - but I do remember it was on sale. Of course I've never seen another like it and I'll be devastated if it breaks.
-Elizabeth
Just found this post today
I love it and and if it isn't too late, I am hereby volunteering for the translation of the subtitles into French. :-)
sounds good to me, MC
I won't be re-doing this particular video in French, but would like some help with translating parts of the DVD I'm working on in French. If that sounds good to you, you can email me at the bakery and I'll let you know when I'm ready for you.
-Mark
http://TheBackHomeBakery.com