Expanded starter use details needed
I've seen endless videos about HOW to make starter, and about feeding it on a regular basis. Lots of info of ratios to feed: x starter: x water x flour. Lots of info on starting out - but not too much on the ongoing day-to-day uses and combination of uses.
I get how a basic sourdough recipe works: xgr starter, xgr water, xgr flour, etc. Then bulk ferment with various stretch & fold cycles with various rests in between. Then there is the pre-shape and final shape after which it goes to the basket and into the fridge for xx hours. And finally the Big Bake. Yada...yada...yada.
So in this flow I see an amount of starter being used with each loaf and replenished afterwards and refed daily. Then stored in the fridge till next time when you bring it out - feed to get it "hot" and then do another bake,
All that sees to make sense - but then comes the "levain" thing where some of your starter is used with flour and water - raised - added to the actual bread recipe (where I would have normally used just the starter).
Even this is fairly understandable - but then if you have a supply of starter from which you take portions for levain, maybe adding to discard for pancakes. In this scenario is one to create a fairly large quantity of starter from which you can take small amounts for other recipes?
Jack (of "Bake with Jack" fame) talks about "scrapings" - which is a small amount left after a bake and from this another batch can be grown. He seems to imply you never really need to much on hand.
Does one doing a lot of bread baking maintain a number of starters of various hydrations, flours and ratios? In various amounts?
The devil is in the details - some further details would help... :-)
Sorry, I'm not really sure what you're asking about regarding the levain situation. Are you wondering why a levain is used in a recipe rather than just a starter? The starter is just the colony of microbes that you maintain regularly while the levain is the preferment that's actually used in your dough. You can make a levain that's basically identical to your starter (ex: you feed your starter daily at 1:2:2 and make a levain at 1:2:2), but since some people make a levain comprised of different flours or ratios to their starter (ex: you maintain your starter at 1:2:2 but make a levain at 1:5:5), it's useful to differentiate the terms.
Personally, I keep two starters at around 20 g each. They're both stiff but they have different hydrations and use different flours (one's made from pure whole rye and fed 3:5:8 and the other's half bread and half ww flour fed 1:2:4). But it's not really necessary, it's just that if you want to experiment with the qualities that a starter brings to the final loaf, you can play around with them.
I recommend watching this video from Elly's Everyday. It is very straightforward and tells you everything you could want to know about maintaining sourdough. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf90Mt-uhSY
I hope this helps. This is my practical advice.
Keep three starters, one permanent refrigerator "mother" that keeps the culture going with occasion feeds. One back-up starter (dried, chilled firm, or firm frozen.) And one starter getting ready or left over from making a recipe (levain.)
At different times you may have more than needed of any of these three basic starters. They all came from the initial starter that took so much care to grow. Keeping only one starter has a certain amount of risk although it keeps things simple in the beginning. It is easy to get distracted and use up all the starter in a bake, and therefore you have to start over making a new starter from scratch. (Ugh!) There are a number of accidents with washing out the jar, or cleaning the fridge, or or or. And some levains are so great, they get turned into "mothers."
Leftover starter recipes exist to use up waste or discards when the starter has finally performing. I would not keep those first early discards due to the imbalance of bacteria in them. Wait to collect discards for cooking after yeast has shown itself. If you like the discards recipes that help use up good discards, make more levain so you have an ample supply of discards in the fridge. Be sure to label the jars.
Thanks to all who responded to my... wandering, unclear question!
I did watch Elly's video and it was a big help. I've discovered that one of my BIG misunderstandings was that you really only need to feed started when you are going to use it! It appears as long as there is a bit of starter left - it will keep in the fridge until you are ready to bake again - then you feed the starter "scrapings" with enough flour/water to get the amount for the next bake - plus a little left to keep it going for next time.
I also think I had the idea that I could do multiple feedings with no baking to help get to a mature and tasty starter a bit sooner. I guess some things just can't be rushed! :-)
" It appears as long as there is a bit of starter left - it will keep in the fridge until you are ready to bake again"
I wouldn't do that for the long run. I might be a newbie, been doing this at home since 6-8 months. From what I've understand if you leave only scrapings there would be many bacterias and less nutrition for bacterias. So I think it may die if you try to keep it in fridge for a month. I think it's better to see it like this.
If you bake daily; lets say your levain arrives peak activity in 8 hours. You prepare levain at 12midnight, start making dough at 8 and you need new levain at 8 next morning. So your scrapings need to stay only for 16 hours, which is fine either if you keep it in fridge or RT. But you should keep something as backup starter for worst case.
If you bake weekly or in longer periods; you should prepare small batch for fridge. Like 100grams of starter to keep in fridge and a second 100grams of starter in fridge as backup. I don't know the freezer method it would be better for back up. When you are going to bake you have 3 options from most proper to most sloppy. 1) 2 days before baking get a spoon of starter, feed it in each 12 hours and get a very active levain when baking. 2) 10 hours before baking get a spoon of starter and prepare levain mixture with that. Have somewhat active levain for baking. 3) Get a spoon of starter and directly put it in your dough. I've never tried #3 but I'm sure it is going to be ok.
Yes - I would not want to leave a mother/starter unattended/unfed for a long time. But I think having ONE basic mix for the starter is THE best idea.
My grandmother made "buckwheat pancakes" (which I now understand to be a form of sourdough) and always left some batter in the mixing bucket. Each successive batch was mixed from this - and as the season progressed they got a lot more "snap" (as she would say!).
Currently I'm 'raising' a couple starter/mothers (wheat, white) but not baking with them - just want them to 'mature' and get stronger before I use them. As each one raises I discard most of it and start it again... They will be the 'mother' that is used to make all future starters and saved in the fridge.
I think the hard-core bakers that use starter-flour-water ratios (while perfectly correct) add a bit of unnecessary regimine for the home baker. If I have a "dab" of mother along with my flour-water to feed - the extra flour/water from the mother does contribute to the overall - but I think for the casual baker - this can be ignored. Makes life a lot simpler!
Unfortunately you cannot foresee every worst case, that's why we are suggesting to keep two backups. One time I came home and cannot see my starter in the fridge. Apparently someone dropped it and threw away. Fortunately I had 2 more backups in fridge.
Yes - that is certainly a good point! Once I have a decent mature starter will certainly make some backup and maybe even try to dry some out - just to give that a go.