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Questions about sprouted grains, yeasts and sourdough starter

dunnetahl's picture
dunnetahl

Questions about sprouted grains, yeasts and sourdough starter

I'm looking to get into baking my own breads. My goal is to get the bread as healthy and easy to digest as possible because I often have digestive distress from commercial bread products (not so much sensitive to the gluten as anti-nutrients and other junk added to the bread). I've been researching bread-making and sourdough for the last few weeks. I'm about to purchase some flours but would like some advice and clarification on a few things first.

 

For now I'm trying to work on a basic sourdough bread, a pizza dough, brioche and focaccia.

 

I would like to try and use sprouted grains as much as possible, but from the research I've been doing, it seems like using 100% sprouted grains often results in a much thicker and wetter dough that does not rise as much. Also the information on making a sourdough starter out of 100% sprouted grain is very sparse, however from what I did find, it seems the process is fairly different from making sourdough starter with un-sprouted grains.

 

I will do my best to organize my questions concisely:

 

1. Sprouting results in more enzymes that, to my understanding, break down proteins more quickly in the bread. This accomplishes much of the same task as fermenting the bread with a sourdough starter and the kneading process. With that said, if I make my starter with 100% sprouted grains, am I going to be able to use it like a regular sourdough starter in sourdough recipes or do I need to reduce my fermenting times? Or is it a case of the enzymes break down the protein too quickly and you can't really get a bread that rises without it falling apart, or that letting it ferment with the extra enzymes from sprouting will result in too much protein being broken down and a bread that falls apart?

 

2. The first question is around using sprouted grains in the sourdough starter, this question is around using 100% sprouted grains in the dough (ideally with a starter made from 100% sprouted grains). Again my goal is to have a lighter airy dough, like a standard sourdough. Most of the 100% sprouted grain breads I've seen are very dense. Even the sprouted grain breads I buy (that are airy and similar to regular bread) all have a mixture of sprouted and un-sprouted grains. So I'm wondering if it is even possible to get this kind of bread with 100% sprouted grain or does this lead to the problem I alluded to in question 1 with the bread not holding up if you try to ferment with 100% sprouted grain?

 

I'm pretty sure these 2 questions will help me get through the sourdough bread and the pizza dough.

 

3. The third question is more about yeast and the brioche/focaccia. I'm interested in experimenting with trying to make these in a slightly healthier way. Ideally trying to use at least some amount of sprouted grains and some kind of active live yeast instead of a dry one. Does anyone have suggestions of how possible this would be with sprouted grains and what difference or considerations would need to be taken? And I assume the yeast can't be substituted out directly for sourdough starter like in some bread recipes. Is there a way to use some kind of wild or living yeast? Or what would be the healthier kind of yeast to use for these kinds of bread? Is a standard commercially produced baker's or brewer's yeast my only option other than instant yeast?

 

Hopefully the line of question isn't too misguided or insane. Still very new to bread making and there is a lot to learn. Thanks for reading.

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

To help people give recommendations/advice, what country and city are you in?

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Digestibility issues are dealt with in this book,  Sourdough School by Vanessa Kimbell: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BPV28CC?tag=froglallabout-20

Non-gluten issues with bread were what got her into baking sourdough.  I forget if she goes into sprouted flours.  The Kindle edition is priced at US $7.99, last I looked, which is cheaper than used hard  copies if you include shipping.

Specific formulas for sprouted flours are covered in: Bread Revolution, by Peter Reinhart:  https://www.amazon.com/Bread-Revolution-World-Class-Sprouted-Techniques/dp/1607746514?tag=froglallabout-20

Reinhart also goes into the enzyme and fermentation issues.

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Kimbell's book is more geared to the raw beginner, and she makes the concepts of sourdough easy, so I would start there,  and try those formulas.

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There is a possibility that sourdough alone (not adding in sprouted flours) may solve your health/digestibility issue.  So as a plan, I'd recommend learning sourdough first, without the added complexity and hassle and expense of sprouted flour.

Sprouted flour is expensive when store-bought.  And doing it yourself takes time and effort (soaking, draining, rinsing, checking it twice a day, dehydrating) , plus the cost of a grain mill if you don't already have one.

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Bottom line:  One thing at a time.

 1) Learn baking with sourdough. Get a few months of successfully baking sourdough under your belt.  Try to get a family member or friend to help you with learning to bake in person.  It will be much faster and easier that way.

If your helper  does not know sourdough, then learn to bake with commercial "regular" (store-bought)  yeast like they do.    It is much easier for a raw beginner, who has never baked bread, to learn in person, even using commercial yeast, than trying to learn sourdough from scratch over the internet.     So, after you  learn to bake bread with commercial yeast, and know what a good home-made loaf looks like, learning sourdough will be much, much easier.

2) AFTER you learn to bake in step 1, THEN, If you still want to investigate sprouted flour, start out with store-bought sprouted flour.

3) You don't necessarily have to use 100% sprouted flour in a formula (recipe) to get benefits from it.

Good luck, and bon appétit!

dunnetahl's picture
dunnetahl

Thanks. I tried to make some regular sprouted bread with instant yeast like Peter Reinhart recommended and I was able to find his recipe. I'm definitely not getting too much rising activity or gluten activation. I baked one in a pan and it came out pretty dense. I have the other half of the dough I'm going to try Peter's heart method.

 

I definitely appreciate what you mean about getting the hang of it with non-sprouted flour and dry yeast first, then building up to a non-sprouted sourdough and also probably experimenting with different proportions of sprouted flour. I definitely need to get a feel for it before attempting large proportions of sprouted flour.

 

 

I think most of the questions I still have will be best answered by me doing some trial and error and getting the hang of it for myself. Thanks for the tips.

Evangant's picture
Evangant

Hi This is the reference to Peter Reinhart’s SPROUTED PAIN AU LEVAIN Recipe in his book

I use biodynamic hard white wheat Corel variety from Australia, I sprout myself, dehydrate and grind with wonder mill jr deluxe 1 day before using,  leaving flour at room temp before using.

I think that the enzymes in my flour would be very active compared to purchased sprouted flours as they would be much older this may explain why my dough breaks down so quickly and why I don't wait until it doubles in size prior to shaping 

Evangant's picture
Evangant

Hi I am currently Trying to perfect a Sprouted sourdough Bread I have been trying for 1 month now making 2-3 loaves a week, I am starting to get a better loaf now I am following Peter Reinhart’s recipe and Ken Folkish techniques for sour dough 

schedule 

7am make a Leaven 21g starter - 84g wholewheat - 105g 35°c water Leaven left ferment at26°c for 8hrs 

3pm mix 450g sprouted flour with 9g salt - mix 400g 35°c water with 210g - by Leaven By hand Let sit 5-10min 

3pm-5pm apply 4-6 stretch and folds returning dough back into 26°c area between stretching and folding 

7pm-8pm Gently shape and put into proofing Basket/container In refrigerator overnight 

8am next morning turn on oven to 250°c with Dutch oven inside 

9am take dough out of refrigerator place in Dutch oven bake covered 20-30min then bake 20-30 min uncovered 

 I am also experimenting with replacing water with whey for improved health 

the main area that I am focusing on improving is the fermentation and proofing timing as this dough seems to loose all structure if left to ferment or proof to long also I have noticed that it doesnt double in size before being totally destructed 

 

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

Do you have Reinhart's book "Bread Revolution" which is about using sprouted flour?  (I do.)

the bulk ferment and the final proof times are very short.

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How long do you let the sprouted shoots get before you stop the process and dehydrate?