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Nancy Silverton Grape Starter - Does This Look Right?

NV's picture
NV

Nancy Silverton Grape Starter - Does This Look Right?

After a summer and fall of wonderful homemade pizzas using Nancy Silverton's Pizzeria Mozza dough recipe, I have decided to branch out and start baking bread as well. I've been enjoying La Brea Bakery breads for 30 years, so I figured I might as well stick with Nancy for my first sourdough attempts.

I don't have any of her books, but have just ordered several (including the La Brea Bakery Breads book), which are now on the way. I thought I'd get a head start on the sourdough starter, and relied on this recipe/description, which I found online.

After adding cheesecloth-covered, gently crushed grapes to a flour/water slurry, I had good activity between 36-48 hours later. At that point, there was definitely a bit of liquid separation, but there was also unmistakable bubbling action. EDIT: I should also note that the volume roughly doubled during this time, before slowly collapsing back to the volume pictured below.

However, over days 3 and 4 - where I am now - the separation between liquid and flour has become very distinct, with all the flour mixture settling at the bottom and a layer of slightly grape-tinted liquid on top (along with some flecks of grape skin that got through the cheesecloth). The bubbling action seems to have ceased and it smells a bit like sour yogurt. Where the "grape bag" seemed inflated earlier, it now seems deflated.

My concern is about the apparent lack of bubbling. It's seeming kind of inert at this point, which doesn't strike me as correct. One thing where I have read some conflicting advice is about stirring. The online instructions I followed suggest stirring the mixture once or twice per day - which I have done. However, I have subsequently seen some advice to leave the mixture untouched for the first six days. Could stirring it occasionally have caused a problem?

I've also read that in her instructions in the book, Nancy recommends "refreshing" the culture on day 4 (today, for me). Might that help here?

Anyway, if anyone has experience with this starter and has any advice based on the above, I'd love to hear it!

BrianShaw's picture
BrianShaw

Stir it up, pull out a blob and mix with new flour-water mass. You might want to tighten it up. Do that a few times and you’ll grow a vigorous starter. 

NV's picture
NV

Thanks, Brian. I tried refreshing it with 1/2 cup each of flour and water last night. As of this AM, no significant activity... but we'll see.

Per what I understand of Nancy Silverton's method, I'd like to leave the original mass intact for at least 6 days. If I don't have any activity after that, I'll try what you suggested.

And, of course, if it doesn't work I can start over (I'll have her book in hand by then). I'm in no rush. Still, I'd love to see this first attempt bear fruit, so to speak.

HansB's picture
HansB

Try doing it the easy way: https://youtu.be/SuU0xmqEZyI

NV's picture
NV

That certainly would be easier, and if I start over, I could do that one AND the N.S. grape method. I'd be curious to know how the end products, baked into actual loaves, would compare. One thing I know: Nancy's baked goods (I lived in LA for 30 years) merit the praise they receive... her breads, pizzas, and more are very delicious.

HansB's picture
HansB

That you won't find any grape juice being used at La Brea bakery. I've had the breads and pizza, I agree that it is very good.

BrianShaw's picture
BrianShaw

Silverton’s approach will work but it’s slow. Be patient. Her formula is over 100% hydration. Your refresher was 100%. Try reducing the water. Give it more food (flour) than water and it should speed up. 

NV's picture
NV

Last night when I added the refresher, I started out using only flour, but then decided I should add water because I always see them combined in instructions to feed starter. I'll give it some flour alone later today.

Thanks for the input!

MTloaf's picture
MTloaf

Most 100% hydration starters are half water and half flour by weight. A half of cup of each by volume is closer to 200%. Try 1/2 cup flour and 1/4 flour to get closer to equal weight of each. Always stir and then discard most of the old starter before feeding.

BrianShaw's picture
BrianShaw

Keep working it... it takes time. Here’s mine from this starter method. After the initial “infusion “ I reduced the hydration and it thrived. This is first feeding since May. Yes, it’s been in the refrigerator without care for more than 6 months and it still lives. Not vigorous enough for baking today but after a couple of feedings it will be back in the game. 

my feeding formula: 50 g starter plus 50 g flour plus 40 g water. 

 

BrianShaw's picture
BrianShaw

Tried again to upload picture. Unsuccessful. I give up. Between this and that annoying “Captcha”...

BrianShaw's picture
BrianShaw

... I give up... really...