The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Hi, Norm! Please look at this ...

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, Norm! Please look at this ...

Hi, Norm.

I've taken your coffee cake dough formula and scaled it down, added your streusel topping formula and a cheese filling recipe I've used before. I am planning to make Cheese Pockets tomorrow to test the formula and make adjustments to my taste and so the dough, filling and streusel quantities more or less match up (which they probably don't now).

 Please look at my "work in progress" and let me know if you see any missunderstandings or just dumb mistakes on my part. For example, should the dough be proofed at all between dividing the dough and making up the pastries? I wasn't certain as to proofing at that point, after making up the pastries but before baking, or both.

 Anyway, here's what I'm going to try:

 Cheese Pockets


Coffee Cake Dough (Formula thanks to Norm)
Sugar                                     4 oz (1/2 cup)
Sea Salt                                  1/4 oz (1 1/2 tsp, or table salt 1 tsp)
Milk Powder (skim)                   1 oz (3 T)
Butter or Shortening                  4 oz (8 T or 1/2 cup)
Egg yolk                                  1 oz (about 1 egg yolk)
Egg white                                 3 oz (about 2 egg whites)
Yeast (fresh)                            1 1/4 oz (or 3 3/4 tsp instant yeast = 0.4 oz)
Water                                      4 oz (1/2 cup)
Vanilla                                     1/4 oz (2/3 tsp)
Cardamom                               1/16 oz (1/2 tsp)
Cake Flour                               4 oz (7/8 cup)
Bread Flour                              13 oz (2 3/4 cups)

Cheese Filling
Hoop cheese or Farmer's cheese 12 oz
Sour Cream                              1/3 cup
Sugar                                       2 T
Flour                                        2 T
Egg                                          1 large
Zest of 1/2  lemon, finely grated

Mix all ingredients well. Refrigerate until needed, up to 24 hours.

Egg Wash
Beat 1 egg with 1 T water

Streusel Topping
Sugar (all white, or part brown) 2 oz (4 T)
Butter                                    2 oz (4 T)
All purpose flour                     4 oz
(Optional: honey, cinnamon)

1. Cream the sugar and butter.
2. Add the flour and mix with your fingers, rubbing the ingredients, or in a food processor to a coarse crumb.

Mixing and Fermenting the Dough
1. Mix the sugar, salt and milk powder to a paste.
2. Add the eggs and stir.
3. If using powdered yeast, mix it with part of the water. If using cake yeast, crumble it in with the flour.
4. Add the water (the part without the yeast, if using powdered yeast, otherwise all of it),  cardamom and vanilla.
5. Add the flour. (If using powdered yeast, add the yeast-water now. If using cake yeast, crumble it on top of the flour now.)
6. Mix well into a smooth, soft dough.
7. Cover the dough and let it rise to double size.
8. Punch down the dough, and allow it to rest 10-20 minutes.

Making up the Pastries
1. Divide the dough into 4 oz pieces and roll each into a ball.
2. Place dough pieces on a sheet pan and cover.
3. Take each dough piece and press the middle with a round,  hard object such as the bottom of a 1 cup canning jar to form a depression in the center.
4. Stretch each piece into a square, 4 inches on a side. .
5. Place about 1 T of cheese filling in the center of each piece.
6. Take each corner of the square pieces and fold 3/4 of the way to the center, pinching the adjacent edges of the folded dough together to seal the seams. (See Note)
7. Cover and allow to rise to 3/4 double.
8.  Brush the top dough of each pastry with egg wash. Do not get egg wash on the exposed cheese filling.
9. Sprinkle streusel over each pastry.

Baking
1. Preheat oven to 350F.
2. Bake pasties on parchment lined  sheet pan until golden brown. (20-40 minutes)
3. When pastries are cooled a little, sift confectioner's sugar over each.
           

Note: The pastries can be refrigerated overnight or frozen at this point. If refrigerated, allow them to rise at room temperature to 3/4 double, and proceed as above. If frozen, thaw at room temperature, allow to rise to 3/4 double, and proceed as above.

 What's the verdict?

 David

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Anyone know if Ricotta could be substituted for Farmers cheese? Maybe if you drained some of the water out of it.

Eric

suave's picture
suave

Probably wouldn't be the quite same - both the taste and the texture ae quite different.  Farmer's cheese is relatively easy to make at home though.

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

Guess what there is another ricotta that is used in bakeries that is not comman in supermarkets

this is called ricotta Impastate

in my poor translation (impacted)

it is compressed and very dry  almost all of the water has been removed and a few extras are in the cheese like vinagar

this is the cheese used for canoli as as itialan cheese (pasteria de gran) and cheese filled pasta

in canolli filling the thing most people is the flavor

oil of cinimon just a few drops in as musc as 30 pounds of the cheese and sugar

thecheese also has a fine curd so will mix very smothe

i have only seen it in 10 and 30 pounds and cannot be frozzen raw

but the finished filling (canoli cream) can be frozzen with out hurting the quality.Pro Baker for over 25 years-----Ret
nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

David---your math looks right BUT egg whites SHOULD BE  WHOLE EGG and you missed the water amount !!!!

Corrected

Coffee Cake Dough (Formula thanks to Norm)
Sugar                                     4 oz (1/2 cup)
Sea Salt                                  1/4 oz (1 1/2 tsp, or table salt 1 tsp)
Milk Powder (skim)                   1 oz (3 T)
Butter or Shortening                  4 oz (8 T or 1/2 cup)
Egg yolk                                  1 oz (about 1 egg yolk)
Eggs                                       3 oz (about 2 eggs)
yeast (fresh)                            1 1/4 oz (or 3 3/4 tsp instant yeast = 0.4 oz)
Water                                      8 oz (1 cup) total amount
Vanilla                                     1/4 oz (2/3 tsp)
Cardamom                               1/16 oz (1/2 tsp)
Cake Flour                               4 oz (7/8 cup)
Bread Flour                              13 oz (2 3/4 cups)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

other flavors can be added such as lemon and orange rind grated

rise
Degas and cut your pieces
let rest about 10 minutes so the gluten will relax to make the shaping easer and the shape pieces will strech withour snaping back
egg wash top with crumb and proof
bake --- photograph----eat----review

david please feel free to call me durning the baking on sunday my numbers are on my web site www.nbicomputers.com or use skype.


 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Great! Thanks for the correction. I had the most difficulty figuring out the egg equivalents from your larger scale formula. 

I'm off to the farmer's market and to pick up a couple ingredients I'm short of, then to the kitchen to start on the cheese pockets! 

I'll post the corrected formula and instructions along with photos for sure. 

David

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

 Just saw this your procedure shows you are cutting a 4 oz piece ---thats large

a five pound piece of dough placed in to a divder would cut it into 36 pieces about 2 and 1/4 oz each

while there is nothing wrong about making 4 oz pieces you might want to re think that size  because of the eggs and other rich ing in this dough the oven spring should be quite large_ Don't over proof

Ps - i would use a little spice in the crumb topping the cinimon or a little of the cardomon or both BUT BE CARFULL CADAMON IS STRONG and a little goes a long way specialy if it is fresh

Pro Baker for over 25 years-----Ret

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, Norm.

Re. water: Thanks for the clarification. In your formula, you listed water, 1 lb twice. I assumed - incorrectly, it appears - that was a typo.

And thanks for the advice on the piece sizes. 4 oz. was a WAG (wild-assed guess). I'll work out the size I want hands on. This "dry lab" approach does have its limitations when you have as little experience as I do.

I noticed another oversight in my procedure: I don't have instructions for using the butter or shortening in the dough. Would I be correct in creaming it with the sugar/salt/milk powder paste, before adding the eggs?

David

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

no typo there allthough i do make more than my share

the water is divded into

one part for the yeast to be added after the flour

and one part added to the bowl before the flour

if using cake yeast the water can be combined and the yeast crumbled in--on top of the flour  If using a form of dry yeast the yeast solution is poured in --on top of the flour

the total amount of the water is corect as it should be 2 pounds or one quart

for consistency and to make it easer for people to compair the richness and diference in formulas-  i have based most of my formulas on a 1 quart (2 pounds) of water. amount

I noticed another oversight in my procedure: I don't have instructions for using the butter or shortening in the dough. Would I be correct in creaming it with the sugar/salt/milk powder paste, before adding the eggs?

Creaming is not required with any yeast dough.  creaming is the process of incoperating air with the butter and sugar(as well as other ing) the air is part of the levaning for batters such as cake and muffins because the air that has been whipted into the mix will expand with oven heat.

With yeast doughs this is not the case.  all that needs to be done is that the fats and other dry items (other than the flour) be mixed into a uniform paste so that all ingdents will be distributed evenly through the dough.

So just make a stiff paste and add the eggs, flavorings and all or part of the water.  Add the flour on top followed by the the rest of the water-yeast solution or if all of the water has allready been added crumble in the yeast and mix and knead the dough.

Pro Baker for over 25 years-----Ret

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

So, the "paste" incorporates the butter or shortening as well as the sugar, salt and milk powder.
 David

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

in a word YES!!!

not realy yelling just acenting

i looked at the oringal post and i saw that i forgot to put the shortening/ butter in the instruction line'

sugar salt milk powder to a paste 

instead of

sugar salt milk powder and shortening/ butter to a paste

MY BAD!!!!!!! 

Pro Baker for over 25 years-----Ret

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Do I cream it with the sugar/salt/milk powder paste? (Before adding the eggs)
 David

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Well, I am acutely aware I am flying blind here, like an unlicensed pilot being talked through a landing by the flight instructor who is on the ground.  

Anyway, the dough is mixed and rising. I use the term "dough" with reservations, because it is more like a thickish batter.  I can't imagine dividing it or forming pastries with it. 

 I rechecked the ingredients, and I think I have the right proportions ... 17 oz flour (total), 1 cup water, 8 tablespoons butter, etc. 

Maybe I didn't develop the gluten enough when mixing (10-12 minutes in a stand mixer with the dough hook at Speed 2 and 3). Maybe something unexpected and wonderful will happen while it's rising.  

Is it broke? If so, can it be fixed?  

David

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

it should be soft but a little stifer than a danish dough

if you need to add a little more bread flour

which bread flour did you use

and this needs to mix somtimes 20 min or more for glutin devolopment.

pick up the speed speed 3 or so for this soft dough or use the flat padle

i am on skype so if a call is not possible and you have a mic on your computer skype me go to the contact us page at www.nbicomputers.com

 

Pro Baker for over 25 years-----Ret

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I used King Arthur bread flour. 

It's been rising for 50 minutes now. From what you say, I'm inclined to put it back in the mixer with another 1/2 cup or more flour and mixing for another 10+ minutes. 

If I knew what "danish dough" was like, I'd know something. I feel like I know nothing ... or a bit less, at the moment. But I'm learning! 

I don't have skype, but thanks for the offer.

David

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

 its runny

almost to soft to pick up at first

are you in the U.S i do have a 1-888 toll free number if you need to USE IT.

Pro Baker for over 25 years-----Ret

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

skype is FREE and with a mic you can talk computer to computer like a phone free all over the world

Pro Baker for over 25 years-----Ret

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

 Golly, gee! I made danish dough, and I didn't even know I knew how! LOL 

I scraped the dough/batter back into the mixer. I resumed kneading, adding a total of about 3/4 cup more bread flour. After about 12 more minutes of kneading, mostly at Speed 3, I had something that could be "a soft shiney dough." It's now back in the bowl rising, and I'm going to get those other ingredients I'll need. 

David

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

soft and shiny is correct

you should have not needed to add that much flour gut it could have been the flour that you used  it can happen

 withthat cake flour did you use (soft as silk---pur as snow ?)

as it ferments it will get easer to work with.

this dough sometimes will take as long as 20-25 minutes mixing time  did it come clean from the mixer bowl

it is a very dramitic change as the dough will suddenly pull from the sids of the bowl and ball its self on the hook or paddle. note i did say sides the bottom will sometimes still stick to the bottom of the mixing bowl.

Pro Baker for over 25 years-----Ret

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

The dough has now risen  to 1 1/2 times its original volume in about 2 hours in a cool kitchen. 

I had thought I had some cake flour but didn't. I ended up using AP flour instead. (Back from the market, I now have cake flour for attempt #2.)  

I gather cake flour absorbs more water. Another factor, which I conveniently neglected to mention, is I used extra large eggs. So, these two substitutions probably account for my needing to add more flour, or, I suppose, I could have not used all the egg or used less water. Chalk it up to first timer mistakes, if you are in a generous mood.  

Even with the added flour, the dough didn't clean the sides of the bowl but came close. That it should is good information.  

I'm about ready to mix the cheese filling and proceed. I will be making up the pastries on a lightly floured marble slab.   

David

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

the extra large eggs was  more the factor

next time use volume mesurment for the eggs thatbis 4 oz total which is 4 oz liqued mesure 1/2 cup

but it should be ok with the corrections

the dough sounds like it is moving (what we call rising) and should be ready to be shapped in to the indvudal cheese pockets now and proofed.

if the dough is ready don't wait
make them you can put the crumb topping on a litter if it is not ready at this time

just do not wate untill their proffed to top them cause that will cause them to fall.

i wonder how many people are watching this step by step thread since this is pretty much happening in real time.

ii will ask one question   where are you country city state?

Pro Baker for over 25 years-----Ret

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

The dough is punched down and resting. The cheese filling is mixed and in the refrigerator. The streusel and egg wash are made and standing by. I'm sitting down for a minute, with no large German baker to abuse me for it within arm's reach. ;-) 

I hang out in the U.S of A., State of California, City of Fresno - Home of the Dancing Raisin's, source of Bulghur for the USA, richest agricultural county in the country. But not a Jewish bakery or deli in sight.  

Sorry ... My dough alarm is sounding.
 
David

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

I don't belevie in leaving anybody alone so about 20 minutes ago i mixed up a batch of the same dough your are making with the folowing minor changes

2 large eggs plus one large egg yolk

13 oz of KA bakers special patent flour

and 4 oz of soft as silk (not self rising) cake flour

using the flat beater on a kitcken aid 5 quart mixer set on speed 3 (between the two and 4 notch on the slide speed handle.

After about 7 minutes the dough almost completly pulled away from the sides of the mixing bowl and i turned the mixer off after 10 minutes of mixing (all at speed 3)

the result was a very soft dough that ran a little but when scraped off the flat beter it came off almost completly clean and did not stick to my hands. it is a off yellow almost butter color with a fair amount of shine.

one minute of additional kneading on a floured board gave a dough that will hold a round ball when shaped but with a small amount of spread.

i was able to pick ip the dough and place it in bowl for the first rise with little additional flour on my hands

the dough is now rising in my kitchen in a bowl covered with a cloth.

i am wonder if anyone is following our little drama.it is 7:34 new york time and if anyone is watching this bread baking drama lets hear from you.!

9:00 new york time and i just checked the dough i will let it have abouv 30 minutes more before i shape it but it is rising nicely. i dont want to take it to the bench to young.

Pro Baker for over 25 years-----Ret

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, Norm. 

After its rest, the dough was lovely. Just a little sticky but very easy to work with. I scaled the pieces at 2.35 ounces. The dough yielded 18 pieces. 

I made up (My new baking vocabulary of the week) the pastries 3 ways: 1) I pressed the rounded pieces with a small, metal measuring cup, filled with about 1 T cheese mixture, stretched the edges to a square (more or less) and folded the edges in, pinching the meeting edges together; 2) I pressed the centers and filled, leaving the pastries "open"; 3) I gently rolled out each piece to a square, pressed, folded and pinched. I liked the 3rd way best, but it was the last one I did, and maybe I was just getting a feel for the process. 

The pastries baked at 350F and were done in 30 minutes. 

As advertised, there was terrific oven spring. In fact, a lot of the pastries ended up fused together.  

I want to work on the procedure I wrote up, adding what I've learned, then I'll post. Hmmm ... Maybe I'll post some photos as a teaser and the write up later. 

It's cool you are making these too! Please share comments and pics. 

I share your hope some others have participated in the adventure, if only as observers. 

David

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

well as you know i am a few hours behind you

i did not want all dheese  so i cut about 8 of the cheese (had some cheese filling made in the frezzer and with the rest of the dough i filled it with raisens cinimon and turned it into a coffee ring for tomorows breakfast.

it is 10:00 new york time and now they are proofing before bake

so you found out after the dough first rise it will be smoth and sliky to work with out sticking

 i think you went wrong with the x-large eggs and not mixing enough at first

mix as above the next time

i used a padel not hook and the dough delevoped in about 10 minutes.

i will get some pics to post as well.

Pro Baker for over 25 years-----Ret

L_M's picture
L_M

This is a very exciting baking session! Wonderful coaching - I'll probably try it soon. Please post pictures - then for sure I won't be able to resist!

L_M