December 12, 2019 - 2:16am
How to practically mix a starter with autolyse dough?
In my brief experience with autolyse I have found it difficult to mix my starter with the dough. When I do autolyse it produces a relatively stiff although rough textured dough which doesn’t easily combine with my starter which is more moist and of a different texture.
If you have the same ingredients as I, how do you combine them and how long does it take? Do the subsequent stretch and folds take care of it or do you have to get it right from the start?
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I grab it and squeeze it through my fingers usually. Or you can knead it (in bowl is probably easier). It can take a few minutes. But you do not have to get it 100% integrated as long as you are doing enough stretch and folds. There was a community bake recently using the following video, if you look at about 2:30 you can see how she does it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlJEjW-QSnQ
My dough mixture was not as wet as the one in the video. I think that I'll have to do a few stretch and folds at regular intervals to compensate for this.
What is the hydration of your dough and also your starter?
My starter is at 100% hydration. The dough is at about 65% and the combined mixture comes to 69% according to my calculation.
That may be your problem. You might try mixing the levain in when you autolyse the flour and water. That process is called a fermentolyse. Try mixing the levain with your water first, then adding the flour.
That may be an option you want to consider.
At what point is it possible to add the salt using this procedure?
what I do is... don't autolyse all the flour. I hold back some, then fold/knead it in after combining the levain with the autolysed mass. If your formula has any white flour (AP or bread flour), hold part of that back, as it is easier to incorporate than whole grain flour.
into the autolyse. Instead of using all the premeasured water for the starter use enough water to make a soft wet dough out of the starter. Toss the rest of the water into the autolyse getting the consistency of the starter closer to the consistency of the dough.
It's been five hours since bulk fermentation started and the dough appears to have a few large bubbles on its surface. I did four stretch and fold sessions during this time period. I've now shaped it into a boule after lightly flouring the worktop surface and left it covered for up to one hour. It feels a little flabby. Should I shape it again, hopefully tightening it up and creating some surface tension before putting it in a banneton for the final rise or should I not disturb it at this stage?
if you see it rising more out than up....tighten it up again.
This time my baking attempt is more studied than before and I hope not to make a big mistake. My starter had really more than doubled in volume as I have been feeding it over two days, which is a first for me. So, thanks for the tip, I'll give the dough another tightening soon.
UPDATE: Half an hour after pre-shaping the dough and leaving it covered on the worktop it was flattening out a lot. So I shaped it again, but it still felt floppy. I put it in a banneton and in the refrigerator for baking the following day.
Miller, I sympathize with you. Early on in my sourdough education I tried the pure (?flour and water only?) autolyse route and had more issues than I would have liked. I'm not even sure where I got the idea that autolyse was a strictly flour and water thing. Reading comments from the French baker who first promoted autolyzation(?) he seems to have a fairly flexible approach, so you should feel free to eschew any dogma you may have read into exchanges you have consumed here or elsewhere.
As Dan and Mini suggest, try mixing your levain into most of your recipe water before incorporating your flours. I also add poolish with the levain water and flours. Been working great for me. I generally hold back 25-50 ml of the water, then dimple/fold in the salt (after Kristin @FullProofBaking) with that water after a 30-60 minute auto/fermentolyze.
Best of luck and happy holidays,
Phil
You have to understand that autolyse was developed with stiff starters in mind, therefore its hydration was never an issue. With wet starters you have several options, a) do a faux autolyse, that is mix the dough without the salt and let it stand; b) do a partial autolyse, that is use only on a portion flour; c) forgo it altogether, this is not a make or break technique.
I’m starting to understand that there is no single “best” baking formula for bread. This is tough for me because I’m given many choices and I’m not sure where each one will lead me. I should have realized that it’s no use searching for the Holy Grail of baking. The multitude of recipes in existence is “proof” of that...
hydration levain? Mix as follows:
water, then levain, then whisk until levain is completely incorporated into the water. Then flour(s) and mix to obtain the ol' shaggy mass.
Let it sit for ~20 minutes. Autolysing/fementolysing or whatever - 20-30 minutes is sufficient. Then incorporate salt and begin mixing in earnest.
Works every time for. me. Keep in mind that the levain starts to become activated as soon as it is mixed in so you'll want to adjust your bulk fermentation time accordingly.
I should write down the suggestions made here and try them one by one.