The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

1st attempts had no rise - help with next attempt?

Jpops's picture
Jpops

1st attempts had no rise - help with next attempt?

I'm brand new here, and relatively new to baking. I'm looking to add sourdough to my "making fermented things" hobby.

Today is the 1-month birthday of my starter, which I've made with equal parts whole wheat organic King Arthur and water. I fed it regularly for 10 days, and it showed signs of life. At one point, during a warm spell, it got some hooch on top; I fed it, and it kept bubbling away. I've never noticed that there is significant volume increase in my starter - it has surface bubbles and a good smell, but it shows little-to-no growth after feeding. I first baked with it after 10 days. I now keep it in the fridge and feed it 2-3 times before baking with it each weekend.

My first 3 bakes have been failures. Bake 1 - no rise during bulk ferment, no rise during over-night proof, no oven spring, end result was like a discus, I made a ton of mistakes and feared it may have been over-prooved and/or handled too much.

Bakes 2-3 - insignificant rise during bulk ferment, no rise during over-night proof, insignificant oven spring, end result was like a slightly puffy discus.

My recipe & process:

  • 400 g flour (300g 13% white, 100g 12.7% whole wheat)
  • 230ml H2O
  • 5g kosher salt
  • 160g starter
  1. Combine ingredients (I've tried autolyse, and decided to skip it for bakes 2 & 3)
  2. Knead to window pane
  3. bulk ferment in oven set to "bread proof" for 3 hrs or so (covered with towel)
  4. knock back (though there's been little need to knock back), & shape
  5. Over-night in banneton (covered with towel)
  6. pre-heat stone to 480
  7. from fridge, turn onto heated stone, score
  8. 20 min @ 480 with steam (water in roasting pan)
  9. up to 20 more min. at 450 with no steam
  10. discard and/or play disk golf with end product

I'm about to take the starter back out, give it a birthday feed, and prep for bake #4 on Saturday. What can I do to get more rise? Where am I going wrong?

 

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

I think we should first make sure your starter is up to the task.

How about you put the starter on the counter and start your feed regiment? Mark the level of the starter right after being fed, then put it in a warm place (78-80F) would be ideal. Watch it until it rises to its highest height and take a picture. Let us know how much time it took to fully rise.

what is the temperature of the room/spot you keep the starter in?

Before you start, let us know how much and what type of flour you use. Tell us everything you can about your starter.

Danny

Jpops's picture
Jpops

I think you were right - I rushed into baking before the starter was fully ready. After the first bake, I started refrigerating the starter and feeding 1-2 times weekly. The problem was i think I was doing so with a (most;y) inactive starter. I've gone back to 2x daily feedings, and keeping it warm. The starter is already much more spongy, and showing signs of rise after feedings. I'll bake with it again this weekend and hopefully I'll get better results.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Jpops, make sure you don’t let the starter fall too much before refreshing. The goal is to feed and acclimate the starter so that it rises and just begins to recede in 12 hours. That way you are efficiently feeding twice a day.

If you need help with the feed ratio or warmth, let us know. We’ll need to know what you fed, the ratio of feed, and the ambient temperature. Mark the container with the initial starter level and continue marking at intervals when you check it. Pictures are a great help for troubleshooting.

Once you get accustomed to your starter it will become very simple and rational.

Danny

Jpops's picture
Jpops

I got the starter to a good fluffy sponge after a few days (on a 12 hour feeding cycle). Ratio is 1:2:2 using 100% whole wheat. Temp., I'm not 100% sure on, as in the evenings I have been keeping it in the oven with the bulb on - feels like it's slightly warmer in there than when I leave it in the garage on an 80 degree day. I went ahead and made a loaf, and the end product this morning was a reasonable success.

I didn't get any pics to share, but i think I'm on the path to success. Thanks so much for the help!

Archizoom's picture
Archizoom

This may seem counter-intuitive but maybe the heat "spoiled" it. My starter was working great in the winter and then this summer, I don't know what happened but my starter went bad...it didn't double in size anymore and it actually corroded the gluten strands in my dough leaving me with a sloppy soup

Furthermore, 2 sourdough experts I read about a few days ago, recommend keeping your starter in a cool spot which runs contrary to everything I had read about sourdough before, I'm a little bit confused actually. My sourdough starter did fare better at lower temps though

BaniJP's picture
BaniJP

From the description, it simply sounds like your bread was quite underfermented. I use similar ratios (400 g flour, 240 ml water, 200 g starter, 10 g salt) for my sourdough bread and I let it usually bulk-ferment for at least 5 hours (6 if I'm feeling ballsy), giving it a fold 2-3 times inbetween. With your ratios, I would give it 7-8 h bulk-fermentation time.

So a few tips from me:

- make sure your starter is mature (meaning it has domed and fallen a little)
- don't knock back your dough, after bulk fermentation you should handle it gently to not knock out any air, especially if you are doing an overnight fridge rise
- increase your starter amount to 200 g as well as your overall hydration to 68-70% (currently at 64%). The wetter your dough, the faster it ferments. You can use my ratios if you want :)

If you have questions, just ask :)

Jpops's picture
Jpops

This was probably the case - in large part due to my starter being too sleepy. I'm spending this week really nurturing the starter, and will have another go in 4-5 days. I'll increase the starter amount and get a slightly higher hydration dough, as well. Thanks for the tips!