Sourdough Starter not Starting
OK, I am beginning to think no man has ever truly created a starter from scratch and it is all a big hoax. And all these pictures are Photoshopped fakes, using some secret filter called Fake Your Starter.
I have a sleepy starter that I’ve been feeding for what feels like years. At one point it started rising half its size, now it doesn’t even do that. It gets very bubbly, but doesn’t rise much. After 24 hours, it starts to smell slightly alcohol-y, right before feeding. After feeding, it smells very nice. Day after day after day.
I started with 70g organic unbleached rye flour, 70g distilled water. I feed it 70g unbleached all purpose flour, 70g water, 70g starter. After it got to the point of rising half its size and then stopped, I fed it 30g rye, 70g all purpose, 100g water, 50g starter for a few days. Once it started bubbling again, I went back to 70-70-70, using all All-Purpose.
it is in the cool side in my home, between 69-72 degrees. I tried keeping it in the oven with the light on, but it gets very hot—90 degrees and up. I was afraid to keep it in there too long. Although, that was when it started doubling in size—after I had it in there for a couple of hours. When I checked the temp, I got nervous and took it out. It continued halving in size for a few days, then decided it had enough and stopped. But, as I said, it now bubbles very nicely and smells very good.
I am thinking because it’s cool in here it will take a while? I can’t imagine this thing ever taking off.
Hi Patti. What an amusing description! It seems the ambient temperature of your home is a likely source of your frustration, so I suggest you start by trying out one of the several tips contained in the following link. Good luck. Joe
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/40570/tips-how-keep-your-sourdough-starter-warm
You might also consider using some fresh organic whole wheat flour. It is my understanding that it is the wheat berry that holds the wild yeast we like. I have also successfully just dumped in some wheat berries from my local co-op and that has started my levain just fine. 70-80f max as stated too. Any higher and it gets stinky real fast.
sj
I do not think your house is too cool, but I do think your oven is dangerously too hot for the starter. I store my starter in the refrigerator, and refresh it about every three weeks with unbleached all-purpose flour, or with whole wheat flour, or with rye flour. They all work, but do not use bleached flour! Yes, the bread dough will take longer to rise at 70°F then at 80°F but it will rise. Have patience.
Ford
Patti, if you haven’t done so yet, I recommend you dehydrate some of your starter for a backup. Keep your backup in case something goes bad with your starter.
I’d be willing to bet that your starter is fine. But it may need a few feeds to get it active. 24 hr is too long to warm ferment a 100% starter. Once the starter peaks and starts to grossly recede the yeast are in the process of dying off. Try to refresh your starter once it peaks. The very perfect time to refresh would be after the peak and just begins to recede. When your goal is getting your starter more active, you don’t want it to start smelling strong (sour, alcoholic).
The following will either accelerate or slow the duration of a starter’s maturation cycle.
Most starters will peak sometime between 6 - 12 hours at average room temps (72-78F). But starters tend to vary in characteristics quite a bite.
We can help you with your starter. Let us know how you wish to proceed. Starters are tough, and often handle a lot of abuse.
Dan
Update - while writing this post my starter was fermenting @ 84F. It is 100% hydration and was fed 90% AP and 10% Whole Rye. Because it fermented @ 84F, this is what it looked like after 3 hours. NOTE - the starter was taken straight from the refrigerator and refreshed. According to my maintenance schedule this is done once every week.
You could also take a portion of your starter and keep it at a soft dough consistency. That should show expansion as it ferments more than the present 100% hydration version you have been maintaining. It won’t be a “better” starter than you presently have, just a bit easier to read.
Paul
My normal, feeding regiment is once a week @ 1:1:1 (Starter 20G:Water 20G:AP Flour 20G) This weekend I left
Slow-Moe out at room temperature. All day staturday I fed him @ 1:3:3 (Starter 10G: Water 30G: AP Flour 30G) Today I raised the re-nourishment to 1:4:4. (Starter 10G: Water 40G: AP Flour 40G) This is the glutenous little guy after 8 hrs. I don't think I will be awake at midnight so I will re-nourish at 1:4:4 one more time before bed.
Thanks so much for all your suggestions. I am going to start by feeding it at least twice a day and see what happens. I’ll keep in touch.
So, I listened to what you all were saying, and started by increasing the feedings to twice daily. We actually moved out of our home and into another one this past weekend, so I didn’t have time to feed it more often. I wasn’t seeing much change from before. I kept the starter with me on the drive from one home to the other, as I certainly wouldn’t box it and put it in the moving van. We stopped at a supermarket on the way, and I almost died when I realized I left it in the car with the windows shut! Thankfully it was still alive, and I continued on.
Yesterday morning, I ran out of the King Arthur Unbleached All Purpose Flour I had been feeding it (I used up an entire 5 lb. bag feeding this beast). All I had was Organic Unbleached Dark Rye Flour, so I fed it that. OMG! I came home in the evening and it had slightly more than doubled! First time ever. It was filled with holes, and I gave it the “float” test, and floated it did!
I am continuing to feed it twice daily until I am more convinced it is ready. I split it into 2 batches, one I am feeding King Arthur Whole Wheat, the other Einkorn Organic All Purpose. I am testing to see if there will be a difference between the two, especially since the change of flour had such definitive results.
But, I am getting excited. Next, onto what I am sure will be a months-long process of getting a good sourdough loaf.
After feeding the 2 starters for a couple of days, I did not notice that much of a difference. So I got rid of one, and fed the other the Einkorn All Purpose. I noticed it started to slow down in doubling in size. It was still rising, then falling, but not rising as much. This morning, I fed it it my usual 1:1:1, but for the flour, I used half Einkorn, half unbleached Whole Wheat.
It has doubled after 6 hours, and is not yet falling. So it seems All Purpose Flour doesn’t quite do the trick for me.
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Patti, I noticed something in your side and top shot of your starter. Never thought of this before, but I bet there are no or few bubbles in the side shot (looking through the walls of the jar) because of the friction between the glass and the starter as the starter rises. Since there is no such friction on the top, the bubbles are undisturbed and the surface is bubbly.
Also, I think Paul gave you some good advice HERE. If you take some of your starter at your next feed and feed it 1:.8:1 you will be better able to visually judge the activity of your starter. Maybe do 10 starter + 8 water + 10 flour. For now, I advise keeping 2 small starters, your original and the drier version. The visual clues from the drier (80%) starter will help you to learn the starter’s behavior better. NOTE - the drier starter will probably mature a little slower than the 100% one.
Danny
Patti, any chance you own a sous vide? If you do, you could set it to 84F and allow the starter jar to float in the water. It will drastically increase the activity of the yeast and allow your starter to get stronger faster. At this temp you will have to feed more often.
Thanks, I will try these different ideas. I am starting to feel I am learning to “understand” my starter. What a journey!
Hi Patti
Kristen@ Full Proof Baking on Instagram had a great you tube clip on starter maintenance Very explicit Also other great youtube clips on making dough Also a guy called Sune has a website Foodgeek and he has great info about starters too
Happy Baking Liz
Hi Patti, I found your post through a Google search, and I couldn't agree more with your original post. It's all a setup by the flour companies to make a bundle of cash...??!!!! Or is it? I am in limbo here.
Over the summer holidays (6 weeks) here in the UK we decided to give it a try. Six weeks later and nothing. We have tried wholewheat flour, strong bread flour, plain flour - a mix of them all. Different weights, different feeding times/frequencies. Put them in the oven with the light on, covered them with a net, left them uncovered. We bought the flour specifically for this so all fresh, and also bought bottled spring water.
The best we have had was a small fizzle on a "day 2" with a 50g/50g/50g wholewheat. It doubled in size, the bottom third of the jar looked like the original starter, then a layer of brown-ish liquid about one fifth and the rest a pile of bubbly stuff on top - so exciting. Then nothing. Fed for 7 days and chucked it because it developed a grey mould on top.
All comments/advice welcome, but it looks to me like the Hungry Guest bakery won't be losing a customer!
Last question - how do I know the little beasty yeasties in the air have actually gone into the flour/water mix to start the reaction? I hate to think I have spent 6 weeks nursing childrens homemade glue!
I completely feel your frustration!! I actually nursed a starter for 3+ weeks and it was literally refusing to double. It would rise a little, have a lot of bubbles, but the texture/smell and rise were not there. I ultimately chucked it and did the Debra Wink pineapple method that people on here reference: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/10901/pineapple-juice-solution-part-2
I did this with whole wheat flour and it worked AMAZINGLY well in terms of consistent rise/fall in 8ish hours by Day 4-5. I am now in week 2 and actually playing around with different flours. I tried to switch to an AP flour feeding, and my starter would rise but not double. It just seemed lethargic, even with a strong flour like King Arthur. So I am now on a AP + WW mix and it's much happier (see photo).
I think the issue, to your point, is the expectation that starters will be ready to go in 7 days and it's just flour and water! It's actually flour, water, temperature, humidity, and waaaaaay more time than 7 days. Through lots of correspondence on this site, I've learned it really takes 14-21 days before the starter is super strong. I am in week 2, so I will feed it a few more days before even attempting to bake (probably around day 20).
Hope this helps!
There is a lot of guidance on this one. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/65382/what-going-my-starter