The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Help with SAF red instant yeast

sdean7855's picture
sdean7855

Help with SAF red instant yeast

I have been reliably baking a spelt bread in my Virtuoso now for a year using Fleischmann's Instant Dry Yeast (fast-acting in the 1 lb. vacuum block).  My current recipe is derived from considerable assistance from the good people here on the French Loaf (the full story is in this Special Needs post.)

I recently thought to try SAF's red saf-instant yeast, but when I did, using the same 2 tsp of yeast, the loaf

  • Didn't rise as high
  • had a denser crumb, more like a quick bread leavened with baking powder instead of yeast
  • the crust had what looked like popped bubbles, see image. It looks like the yeast, instead of developing pores in the bread, generated bubbles that moved to the top and popped

What did I do wrong?

clazar123's picture
clazar123

I remember how you persisted! So good to hear the results were consistent and also persistent!

If you have any Fleischmans yeast left, I would make a loaf with it and see if it goes back to expected behavior. If not, it is time to experiment a little.  I use SAF yeast all the time but I change my technique as I observe the dough. When you work with a machine that has set times (even one as wonderful as the one you have) it is not adaptable but "set in its ways". Pun intended. :)  So if the yeast is more/less active, it still times the same amount of time for the rises and proofs.

The loaf looks really overproofed to me. It could be that the SAF yeast is more active than the other brand you used. Get a notebook and timer out. Rather than making whole loaves mix by hand a small amount of dough-enough for 2 rolls, perhaps. But add Fleisch.yeast to one and SAF to the other- in equal amounts. Let rise to double on the same pan and observe the time it takes to rise almost double-this is spelt, after all. Observe and see if the SAF is faster to rise than the other. This may be all you need to do to see if it is the yeast. If the SAF roll is considerably ahead of the other roll then you need to either change the proof time setting on the bread machine or add a little less SAF yeast. Keep in mind that the longer,slower the bulk rise, the better the flavor. Decreasing the rise time may produce the proper texture but it may be a starchier taste. A little less yeast may allow you to preserve the timings on the cycles.

You could also arbitrarily just decrease the amount of SAF yeast in the next loaf but that is a lot of ingredients to experiment with.

FYI-the link to your recipe is asking me for a password.

sdean7855's picture
sdean7855

I confess, I am a crank-turning recipe follower, rather than one of the gods and goddesses of the kitchen who just know and dance through the creation of wonderful food.  But This is Something To Set Me On the Path.

I have the additional excuses of hand arthritis and neuropathy as an excuse to not knead the bread, however much it may need it.

I have corrected that screwy link...it was a result of something the advanced editor did with the link as an ftp request instead of a regular old HTTP URL....hand edited the link and it should work fin

clazar123's picture
clazar123

Can you post a crumb shot if the loaf is still available?

To me it just looks very much like a really overproofed rye with all those escape wholes in the top. The crumb description sounds that way,too,tho rye gets positively gummy when it is overproofed and baked.

I still have very little experience with spelt but I have read here that it can be very touchy about being proofing. As I recall, that was a big focus on your first part of this journey was to get the spelt hydrated with the autolyse and then proofed but not overproofed.

Was the yeast the only change in products? Different flour brand? New microwave warming the milk a lot warmer in 1 minute? Kitchen temp a lot warmer? We have been very cool in Minnesota so far but Florida has had record heat the last month and poor Paris-112F!!! 

If the yeast amount noticeably affected the dough consistency as you described in your recipe, then decreasing the amount may make the dough wetter. That opens up other implications. Rather than dealing with those, you may just want to decrease the rise cycle time with this batch of yeast. It may be a case of watching and timing the rise cycle and interrupting the cycle the moment you see it is risen "as usual"(when you used the other yeast) and manually setting it to bake. For subsequent bakes,re-set the rise time to the new setting.

Perhaps MiniOven can jump in with her wonderful experience with spelt!

 

sdean7855's picture
sdean7855

...and the kitchen was within 70-75 degrees both times.  Just the yeast changed.

Formerly, I first did a 5 minute knead and 30 minutes for autolyze, followed by a 14 minutes knead, 50 minute rise, 20 minute proof.

This AM, I am doing the autolyze and knead the same, but then a 40 minute rise and a 12 minute proof.  Using 1 and 1/2 tsp saf red instant, where before I used 2.

 

My spelt is Vita-Spelt/Purity purchased through amazon, half whole, half white

sdean7855's picture
sdean7855

Things were better, but still not right. Seems like the first rise is way too long, even when cut back to 40 minutes from 50.  However the bread was lighter and higher (3-4 " instead of 2")

About 3/4 through the first rise, the loaf looked like this with fresh bubbles popping through the top as I watched

 Six minutes later after knock-down between 1st & 2nd rise, it looked like this:

With a ton of bubble holes.  A few minutes after baking began, it looked like this:

...and the done finished baked loaf looked like this:

 

I think I need to cut the initial rise way back, maybe 28 minutes (from 40 here)? And cut the proof/2nd rise to maybe 9 minutes from 12?

Should I further reduce the year from 1-1/2 tsp to 1 teaspoon?

clazar123's picture
clazar123

It certainly looks overproofed to me. Try just reducing the yeast and leaving the times as they are. Less yeast will take longer and may need the lowered times. a 9 minute final proof seems just too short.

clazar123's picture
clazar123

So you changed 2 things. Bold move. Keep an eye on how it looks as it goes in final proof.

Let us know how it turned out. Send a crust and a crumb shot, if possible.

clazar123's picture
clazar123

Did the changes finally work?

sdean7855's picture
sdean7855

.....(to say nothing of the fishes). Soon I will bake another loaf, this time with only 1 tsp of yeast (last time was 1.5), will keep the first rise to 40 minutes and the proof to 12 as clazar123 suggested.