The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Underproof for 100% rye?

reishispore's picture
reishispore

Underproof for 100% rye?

Hi guys,

I baked my first loaf yesterday using Mini’s adaptation for 1-2-3 sourdough for 100% rye. Considering it was my first go at bread I think it could have been worse. But my question is this: does it look underproofed? My house was a few degrees warmer than the base temp for the recipe so I cut the proof time by an hour or so. Am thinking now that was a mistake and should have let it keep going. 

Thoughts?

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

not underproofed or overproofed!  :)

-Mini-o-goldilocks

reishispore's picture
reishispore

Will keep playing around with rye then 😊. 

Filomatic's picture
Filomatic

Mini knows best, and that's a fine looking bread.  Also consider that higher percentage ryes can benefit from staying uncut for longer.  Recipes in the Rye Baker often recommend not cutting for at least 12 and as long as 48 hours to allow the crumb to set.

reishispore's picture
reishispore

I let it sit overnight but will go longer next time.

Filomatic's picture
Filomatic

Many expert rye bakers would say that is enough, but it wouldn't hurt to experiment with a longer rest.

reishispore's picture
reishispore

I want to see if I can reduce that at all. Maybe higher temp bake? We'll see!

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

longer bake to darken the crust a little bit.  

If the crust seems too hard with a little more baking, run it one second under the tap when hot from the oven.  Then cool on rack.

reishispore's picture
reishispore

Do you think a longer bake would help with the gumminess better than higher temp? I baked this one at 425 F (220 C).

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Try it and see.  Don't forget to freeze a slice or two of this loaf to crumble into the making of the next loaf.  Might wanna toast them first for a little more flavour. :)

reishispore's picture
reishispore

This might be a silly question, but what does adding a slice of the previous loaf do exactly?

Filomatic's picture
Filomatic

Using old bread soakers is a great way to recycle old bread and inject flavor into your next loaf.  You can cube them and let them dry out, or toast them, grind into crumbs. Then pour boiling water on them and soak overnight alongside your levain. I used a pastry cutter last time to mince mine, as they have a tendency not to break up fully. 

reishispore's picture
reishispore

Thanks for the explanation. I will definitely experiment with that as well!

ananda's picture
ananda

The use of old bread as described by Mini is to kick-start enzymatic activity in the rye paste, not primarily for flavour.

Andy

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I'll have to remember that....so that's what's really going on.  1)  kick starting enzymic activity  2) secondary maybe boost in flavour.  Cool.  That is why it speeds up fermentation?  Always learning.  ( Or forgetting and learning again.)

I wonder what roll English type walnuts play as they seem to help a new rye starter produce a more complex flavour as well.  Totally recommend tossing into dough made with a young starter.  Whole, broken, chopped or grated.

Got a new herb, lemon verbena or lemon beebrush.  Wanna combine into rye dough. We will see.... 

Filomatic's picture
Filomatic

Andy,

I've never heard this explanation.  Do you have a reference?  Everywhere I search only refers to the flavor it adds.

Phil

ananda's picture
ananda

I've given references below Phil,

I think you maybe need to broaden out the thinking as you read Hamelman.

Old bread was added originally as means to re-use, not throw away.   Bread is a peasant food; the black pumpernickel a great example.   I believe GOST standards were introduced partly to stop Russian bakers in Soviet days from adding back too much old bread as re-feed!

Sure, old bread has stronger flavours [so long as it is good bread in the first place], but surely flavour in bread originally derives from proper fermentation?   And all I'm really getting at is that "altus" used in correct proportion to flour is great aid to fermentation, and that's enzyme-based.   It's not so simple as adding old-bread brings more flavour, there are more complex factors at play.   Otherwise just make bread completely from old bread re-constituted?   Not going to work structurally is it?

With Hamelman this is not completely explicit but you can work it out.   Ginsberg makes it more obvious.

Andy

ananda's picture
ananda

More on "Altus"

 

Hamelman [2nd Edition 2013] adds at 20% in his Pumpernickel, but that's as proportion where 100% includes whole rye grain, rye chops,rye meal and strong wheat flour.   It's such a different formula!

Ginsberg [2016] Rye Baker pp.46 more instructive for typical North European ryes, up to 10% old bread on flour.

Andy

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

this may be too much information.  Rocket scientists enjoy!  I do find lots of tid bits, what may apply is that enzymes also react with gelatanized starch, a fancy name for a bit of baked bread.

http://www.classofoods.com/page1_7.html

Scroll down to:  Factors influencing the performance of enzymes, paragraph 3