May 7, 2019 - 2:31pm
Autolysis Conditions
Hi everyone,
I would like to know your experience with different autolysis durations and temperatures for sourdough.
1) What is the longest you have autolysed your flour (flour and water only)? Typically, most people do this for 30 minutes to an hour, but I've also read about longer autolyse times of up to 12 or 24 hours. Have you seen any difference in the final loaf between short and long autolyses?
2) For long autolyses (say 12 hours), what are the differences you've seen in the final loaf when you've autolysed at room temperature vs. in the refrigerator?
3) Have you used different autolyse durations for different hydration levels? If so, what were they?
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Not exactly an answer to your question, I know... I think it's important to explore the various techniques while you're learning. But ultimately I didn't find autolyzing to make any difference at all, to taste or texture, color, rise or anything else. I stopped doing it completely. Maybe I just did it wrong, but on the other hand, I find the bread to be completely enjoyable without it. I make fresh, naturally leavened bread almost every day, and the entire process of mixing the dough takes about 10 minutes. No kneading, slapping, folding, autolyzing, weighing, etc.
Thank you, jcope. I use a mixture of T55 and T65 flour, which forms a good gluten mesh very quickly if I mix with water or knead. It makes great bread if I use instant dry commercial yeast. While using sourdough, however, my levain has a tendency to break down the gluten rapidly, so I find that the autolyse step helps to a great extent to form some structure before the levain and salt are added. I've been playing with different conditions - reducing the amount of levain, different autolyse durations, different proving durations, etc. to try to hit a sweet spot.
I have lately used an overnight autolyse with salt. I've followed Trevor Wilson's method for his 'usual' loaf.
After such a long autolyse, the gluten is all formed and there is no need to knead. In fact, I'd say that you should not knead, to prevent destroying the gluten mesh that has formed.
I have not noticed any substantial difference in my loaves (I have also done 1h-2h autolyse followed by some kneading). I have been using this method mostly for convenience: I let it sleep in the fridge (here in Rio, Brazil, I cannot afford not to, since it is usually in the uper 80's, 90's all the time) and in the following morning add the starter and can start with the folds, instead of having to wait an extra 1h-2h.
Trevor mentions that this method is best suited for 'lower' hydrations. In his case, this means you should not attempt an 85% hydrated loaf with it. I have used 75-77% hydration with good results (at least compared to the times I have used other methods). But at least another great baker, Kristen of fullproofbaking uses rather long autolyses, no kneading and very high hydration (80-85%). I believe she does usually a 3-4h autolyse.
Thanks, calneto. Trevor Wilson cools his salted autolyse in the refrigerator and then allows it to slowly come to room temperature overnight, after which he adds his levain. I should try that sometime. He also adds a very small amount of levain (much lower than 1:2:3, more like a 0.3:2:3). He then does his stretch and folds over a 6 hour period, followed by shaping and a rise for about 3 hours at room temperature. I usually do an overnight retard in the refrigerator. From what I've read, slowing this process down improves the crumb as well as the sourdough flavour. Any thoughts?
he uses around 12% starter, I think. He also mentions that given the choice between a shorter bulk with more starter and a longer one with less starter, he prefers the latter. I put 20% and bulk between 4 and 5h30. I also retard my loaves in the fridge. He also mentions you can do it. Feel free to play around with different methods and see what you prefer. He does this himself . Recently he has done the orocess adding salt only after the long autolyse. He also uses Rubaud kneading with some loaves. It’s a vast world.
That's right. About 12%. I was also looking up what Chad Robertson does, which is to use young levain (about 2 hours since last feed). Part of the problem here appears to be that the acidity in the levain is breaking down the gluten, making my dough a shaggy mess. Young levain is far less acidic, and as it begins to ferment the dough, it starts to increase the acidity, but at the same time the dough also keeps getting stronger. So I'm hoping that will work.
My bread tastes great. Brilliant sourdough flavour and great crust. It's just that the dough is very difficult to work with and shape, and perhaps that's why the crumb isn't as light and airy as I would like.
I believe the main reason Robertson uses a young starter is taste. At least that is what I took from what he wrote about the subject.
Wet dough is hard to work with. I'd say that anything above 60, 65% is already a challenge. One important point is the right degree of fermentation. If your bulk is very short, then your dough might be underfermented and, thus, more sticky.
Calneto, I think I've found a solution to the problem. I had broached it in another post about dough hydration. The entire conversation, along with photos of the end product, can be found at the link below.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/60117/dough-hydration