The Fresh Loaf

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what am i doing wrong?!

Cmykphotog's picture
Cmykphotog

what am i doing wrong?!

I'm no novice. I have been baking successful sourdough loaves for over a year now. For about 6 bakes now my bread has been coming out flat! Its driving me up a wall. for the dough I'm using 80% blend of AP and BF, and a 20% whole grain, and bran mix. with .2% salt. I autolyse for 30, then add 20% levain, wait 30 then add salt. I then bulk at 82 degrees for 4 hours. 

hreik's picture
hreik

you give whole recipe and process?  Like what do you do after the bulk?  how long is final fermentation etc?

hester

Cmykphotog's picture
Cmykphotog

After bulk I pre-shape let rest for 15, then shape and put into banneton, then let proof at rt for 30 minutes, and retard in fridge for 12h

hreik's picture
hreik

I think you are over fermenting during the bulk and exhausting the dough.  Listen to his advice.... he's almost always right

David R's picture
David R

Maybe you did nothing wrong... But something has changed. Maybe you changed it intentionally, or maybe it got changed outside of your control. In any case, finding out what changed is the key, because without that information it's an unsolvable problem.

Abe's picture
Abe (not verified)

Is quite warm! Even at 20% levain you could be over fermenting. I'm looking at 4-6 hours for 20% levain at 69.8°F (normal room temperature). You do 4 hours at 82°F (actually 4.5 from when the levain goes into the dough). On top of that you keep the dough the at "room" temperature for 30 minutes after shaping then retard for 12 hours. Might exasperate the problem. Chill the flour and water and drop the levain to 10% then play it by ear. Watch the dough and not the clock. 

P.s. I think you mean 2% salt. 

Cmykphotog's picture
Cmykphotog

Thanks for you reply! From what I’ve read most say the optimal ferment temp is 78-82f, and 3-4h with a 20% Levain I bulk in my oven with the pilot light on and it is a constant 82. My homes room temp is always cold around 69f as well. I heard some people bulking at 69F going like 7-8h. I never see a significant rise during bulk but it could be because my bowl tapers. It’s a see through glass bowl so I mark it and track the rise and it rises like 15% but like I said it could be because of the tapering sides. My starter is definitely not the issue because it’s VERY strong and stable. 

Abe's picture
Abe (not verified)

Normal room temperature and keep an eye on it. If a bowl gets wider then what seems like doubling will be more than doubling and what seems like not such a big rise could be doubling. Why don't you go by how it looks and feels rather than how much it has risen. When the dough is aerated and billowy with a good matrix of bubbles then move on to shaping. 

So where to go from here? 

Option 1: drop the levain percentage keeping everything else the same

Option 2: keep the levain percentage but ferment at room temperature

Option 3: up the levain percentage and keep at room temperature

Optimal temps for yeast is 77-78°F btw and it may seem like just a few degrees, 82°F, but it can significantly increase the starter activity. Better slightly under than over. It might take some trial and error but always good to try a new approach. 

David R's picture
David R

I don't want to just be bothersome, but I believe this discussion is way off track. If you had good success for a long time and suddenly now you don't, temperature tweaking is just a distraction, just busy-work to pretend you are doing something.

I'll repeat: What has changed?

Cmykphotog's picture
Cmykphotog

I think I may have figured it out. I use to make mostly white flour loaves. Recently decided to start making them a bit more whole grain so I add around 20% whole grain now. I read that whole grain ferments faster!

David R's picture
David R

This would make sense, your temperature being probably too high, but the white-flour dough in the past being more able to handle that, so you didn't "get caught" by the warm conditions until now.

It's not proof, but it's certainly a reasonable idea.