Whole Wheat Struggle Continues
Hello Everyone,
I've been hacking away at this whole wheat bread thing for a while now, and its nothing like any bread problem I've ever tried to solve.
First of all, thanks to all of those who posted advice on my first post on this matter. Hester's advice was really good, her bread looked great, and I tried it her way. But, my results were not very good.
This bread is as flat as a pancake, and VERY sour, like to the point of disgust. I will say the texture was pleasant though. In fact it is exactly the texture I want. But I also want the bread to rise and not taste overproofed.
I know the obvious answer is "proof it less". I've tried that already, and my bread STILL has trouble rising.
My formula for this bread was
285g WW flour (KA whitewheat)
265g water
6g salt
50g starter
I'm using a lower % starter than most recipes on this site use. Yet, I'm still unable to ferment at the time parameters recommended. I can just tell its getting too fermented, so I fermented this one for 4.5 hours at 80 degrees, then preshape, rest 30 min, shape, then proof for 3 hours.
I've also fermented for 2.5 hours, proofed for 1.5 hours, and gotten similarly unrisen, flat and ugly results. So, if you an help, tell me what I'm doing wrong to get these flat whole wheat sourdough loaves. Thanks in advance!
80º is too warm for the results you're shooting for. How are you maintaining the mother and preparing your pre-ferment?
I just feed my starter twice a day. If I'm not going to make a bread, I feed it white flour, because its a little cheaper, and it seems to last longer before it needs to be refreshed.
If I am making bread, I make a whole wheat starter, 100% hydration. I will use this when it has a noticeable increase in volume, and has many air bubbles on the surface. This happens at about 4 hours at 80 degrees.
Did I provide the information you were looking for? Also, what temp should I ferment/proof at for whole wheat? 85 works well for my mostly white loaves, so I thought a small reduction would work for my whole wheat ones too. Guess I was wrong.
Lowering the temperature of your whole wheat starter will help with leavening power. Give the low 70's a try. You could lower the hydration too, if that isn't enough. Whole wheat is a different animal --- it ferments faster, and breaks down faster, so the souring element needs more reigning in. Another suggestion is to give two smaller feeds in succession rather than one larger feeding.
You didn't say what proportions you're using for the conversion, but to get a 4-hour ripening at a lower temperature, you'll need to increase the starter portion. Maybe double or triple. So converting white to whole wheat will be more complete in two or three shots. You could try a long cooler fermentation overnight, followed by the small 4-hour build at room temp in the morning. BTW, I like 4-hour final builds for whole wheat starters. It's enough to wake up the leavening before the souring takes off too much.
For the final dough, experimentation is in order. Low or mid 70's is probably where you want to be. And you'll probably need to increase the % of flour prefermented (the starter), because you don't need or want to go for the long fermentations the way you do with white flour doughs. If you're comfortable working with the high hydration doughs (yours is about 93%), no need to change that. But if it is contributing to shaping challenges and spread, reducing that a bit my also help control fermentation and sourness,
My best,
dw
whatever she says. lol
Also 100% whole wheat is very very bitter. As you know I tried this and didn't like it b/c of that. The sourness plus that bitterness is just too much.
80 degrees is too warm. imho
hester
Keep at it. Try reducing the hydration from near 100% to 75%, or 80% if you really want a moist dough. I make a lot of whole grain bread, though none with white wheat. Hard red winter from a nearby farm suits me. Almost always I ferment my dough at room temperature and don't have excessive sourness. Water at 3/4 of the flout weight generally works well for me.
Increase starter activity or increase percentage of starter. It may decrease your fermentation time. Good to have more yeastie beasties on the job.
Reduce proofing temp- this, coupled with the first suggestion may be all you need to do.
Add 1/2 tsp dry yeast- an easy workaround. It may demonstrate that you just need more yeasty beasties on the job, if it produces the loaf you want.
Try your recipe but use a technique like THIS
try viewing “elly’s 100% whole wheat long cold autolyse” on youtube.. it works great for me... I proof at 76F
All I bake is 100% whole wheat sourdough, fresh-milled. You can check out my last few posts and try to follow the parameters, shoot me a question if you need some clarity.
Last loaf.
-Tom