The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Anyone have an idea of the hydration of this dough in video?

msneuropil's picture
msneuropil

Anyone have an idea of the hydration of this dough in video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98z0W-GuOW8

I notice he does not score the bread, or use "steam".  I am curious as to what his dough hydration might be that he does not need to score...or use the "steam" we are told we need for an artisan bread.   This scoring does not occur with the smaller loafs either that appear to be different style.

Reason I am even bringing this up is after 50+ years of baking bread...I am stuck now with a horrible oven in an 55+ age apartment building that won't let me get my oven too close to 450 without setting off alarms, sometimes for the whole darn building...which of course ends up disturbing my elderly neighbors and is embarrassing to say the least for me.  I had to give up baking on my stone or cast iron because of the errant flour burning...LOL!  I am trying to find a happy medium... using parchment helps...but still can't get the heat I need without risking it.  I keep my oven cleaner than I ever have...but it is still a problem with this oven if I raise the heat.  It's even hard to bake a pan of biscuits in a cast iron pan at 450 without setting off an alarm.  

I can bake things like rye breads out of Ginsberg or farm style pan loafs usually without setting off the fire brigades...but I want to bake at a lower temperature...a higher hydration loaf if possible.   My tartine dough does NOT look as firm as this video's dough...so I am guessing it is less hydration.

Which is why I wondered what the hydration of the dough is for this video.  I just know my weeks attempts at a 70% hydration tartine recipe is not working no matter if I take up to 5 hrs to fold it.  I WAS able to do it at my last residence...but when I moved in here...I apparently lost my baking skills.  I've had 4 duds in a row with same recipe I used to be able to do (with different flour and a different oven).

David R's picture
David R

May I ask whether what you really want is a recipe for good bread that bakes at a lower temperature?

msneuropil's picture
msneuropil

I'd love to try a new recipe that will bake at a lower temp with starter to natural levain (or even a tiny yeast kick) that will give me an open custard crumb.  White with wheat or rye is my fav for artisan type.   I do like to retard then bake off the next day or so.  2 days to 3 days start to finish doesn't bother me at all.   I have baked farm type breads my whole life...but I want to eat some artisan bread real soon.  I'm getting sick of pan breads.   I use Ginsberg rye recipes a lot (which I can bake at a lower temp and not set off the alarms USUALLY)...but have a hankering for a good open crumb country boule right now.

IS it possible at a lower temperature??  I just know I am NOT having success with the country white Tartine at the 70% hydration at this apartment oven.  I've had success before with this and with the Forkish country but NOT at my location now.

Has anyone ever baked a good artisan bread in a roaster oven??  I am wondering if I am going to have to resort to putting something like that on my balcony...LOL!  At least there is no smoke alarm on the balcony.  

AND YES...I did try to disable the 2 alarms that are 3 foot and 8 foot away from the oven.  Who the heck puts a smoke alarm above a oven??  They apparently think elderly people need 5 smoke alarms in a very small apt.  I kid you not.  They are hard wired and I got warned to leave them alone when I knocked the crap out of them one night to try and avoid rousting neighbors out of bed.  No more baking early AM or late nights for me.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

there are some pretty good building adhesives on the market.  I've put up some of those big flat LED lights with the stuff and also glued on mopboards with just little blobs of the thick sticky stuff.  Comes in a tube like silicone. Need a gun to squeeze it out.  A little masking tape for ten minutes is all it took to hold it up till it set.  :)

You could get some attractive plastic bowls with flat rims and just glue them over the alarms onto the ceiling. If you print out some picture copies of smoke detectors and glue them on, they may even look like the real thing!  Leave the ones uncovered in rooms where you can close the doors to prevent them from going off.   Or, if money isn't too tight, get a good exhaust mounted over or near the oven.  

I was going to suggest a counter top oven  to put on a cart and shove it outside to bake or bake near the bathroom exhaust fan.     Have you baked inside a pot yet?  Or inside a roaster with a lid?   I bet there are ovens now with inside exhausts.  Just have to find one that can be hooked up.  And yes, one can bake with lower temps.

msneuropil's picture
msneuropil

Well...this is a senior apartment building and they frown on my knocking (accidentally of course) the blasting alarms off the ceiling.  They also like to "test" the alarms quite frequently to make sure they are working...LOL!  

I have a 60+ year old Dru enameled Dutch oven...a regular dutch oven (which is the worse offender), stone insert, roasting lid, etc.  So I am trying everything.  I've never had such disasters in my life and it all started with this oven/apt...and the alarms announce my impending disasters.

I've been resorting to slowly heating the dutch oven on top of the stove vent while preheating...so I can only open the door to put the pan in once really fast hoping to avoid the flash of heat setting off the alarm. I put exhaust fan on high which is LOUD...but I'm not impressed.  LOL  I've tried cold start...rising in the dutch oven but once I get close to 450...I have box fan and broom by the stove waiting.  LOL  Maybe I could put a temporary "hat" on the alarm sitting 3 ft above my oven...and feign ignorance if I get caught.  I've been toying with the idea of putting an oven on the patio...but am sure someone would complain.  

I was used to setting off my alarms when baking at my other homes...but difference was I had  them situated in other rooms, NOT in the kitchen...so at least I could open the door of the oven to put a loaf in without it setting off till there was actually some smoking happening.  Usually the alarms went off due to my errant flour/cornmeal.  Now they go off no matter how clean my oven is.  Seems heat dependent.

At this location...basically you cook...you risk the alarm.  You bake...IT WILL GO OFF if I go close to 450 the moment I open the door or sooner.  I use a fan/vent...and now I open the door to the patio...turn on the bathroom fan and open all the windows in my tiny apartment which can be chilly here in the pacific NW.  Who puts 3 smoke alarms 3-12 ft away from a oven in a common kitchen/dining area???  They do.  With all the windows and door opened...folks across the road now know exactly where the alarm is going off.  Embarrassing to say the least.  LOL!

I tried just a sheet pan...shorter preheat time needed...didn't work.  

SO now I am trying to use less hydration and lower temperatures to get something close to a country boule.  I was able to get a Tartine mix to bake in a loaf pan at 430...but it's just not what I was hoping for.  It tasted fine.

Trying 2 different hydrations today...at 400-430 on stone and dutch oven to see IF that works somewhat...will wait till close to noon so if the alarm goes off folks will be dressed as they evacuate the building...LOL!  

David R's picture
David R

Alarm so close to the stove is wrong design. I don't know if it might accidentally still comply with some code somewhere, but in any case it's stupid design by whoever installed them.

msneuropil's picture
msneuropil

I agree...the closest one...a yard stick from above stove exhaust exit to the first alarm...right above the sink.  One right above the kitchen doorway and one in the hall right outside the doorway and right by the bathroom door...and the steam from the oven and the steam from the bathroom sets them off.  And there is one in both bedrooms .  So I have 5 alarms that go off each time I bake close to 450...but I think I can keep it localized now so it doesn't spread.  Trick is to NOT open doorway to hallway to vent...which then will trigger the whole building.  So I am stuck in an apartment with flashing lights and blasting alarms till they stop...or risk the whole building.    Of course...folks can hear MY alarms...but at least they don't have to evacuate unless the whole building goes off.  I can go stand like an idiot on the patio while everyone stares at me...LOL!

I have to be the neighbor from hell.  I've talked to maintenance and they acknowledge it was a design problem...but they have no solutions to this other than tell me that folks generally don't bake around here.  I guess they think people 55+ only reheat food.  

msneuropil's picture
msneuropil

Hey Mini...I covered the alarms with shower caps/bowl covers.  

 So far so good as far as the alarm for the 1st loaf on stone.  But now I realize that my problem could be fact that once I set thermostat to 450-500...it stays in preheat mode.  Never kicks off the broiler.  

2nd loaf at about 60% in dutch oven at 430.  Will see.  Got ladder on standby.  

I'm disgusted at this point and am tired of trying high hydration doughs and failing with this oven.  At least I can bake stiffer rye breads (under 450)  and loaf breads...so it could be worse.  I will just have to bake artisan style when house-sitting for my son.  LOL!  His place is big enough I don't have to shock the neighbors...AND the preheat turns off.  His oven even has a steam function.   I can't ask maintenance to replace stove...this one IS the replacement for the oven that wouldn't get hotter than 325.  *sigh*  I really hate 2 element preheats.

At least I can bake a pie in this oven. 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

the goofy knobs?  What do the settings look like?  Maybe toggle to lower heat before baking.

got another idea... what about getting a can of air, like the stuff electricians use to dust components.  It's CO2 or compressed air and comes out very fast and cold and sending a blast of cold air might just cool down the heat sensitive alarms.  No evidence.  :)

Makes me think a styrofoam bowl under the shower cap (clever!) might insulate better against heat.  What happens in summer when the AC stops on a hot day?  

If you think the oven is smoking too much, maybe the temps are higher than they should be.got any standing thermometer or a temp pistol nearby? A new oven or one that's never been used before would smoke with the first use.  Just keep baking.  

Could hang out a shingle:  "Fresh bread available after the alarm sounds."

David R's picture
David R

They're not even smoke alarms? They have a heat sensor installed right by the stove?

That's not poor design, that's an absolute idiot. I'm surprised they didn't put the kitchen sink below floor level under the bed, and a boot scraper in the bathtub.

msneuropil's picture
msneuropil

Well my 2 ceiling alarms are NOW inthe back bedroom with the door closed...sitting on a desk once I figured out how to make them stop telling me I was unplugging them...you guessed it...verbal alerts! Not sure how I did it cause unplugging AND removing the battery didn't shut them up for at least 3 mins. 

The ones I can't removed that are impossible to remove are on the walls...1 inch below the ceiling. Totally different type of alarm. 

So I got inspiration from Minioven...and I put shower caps on those bad boys...  NO alarms going off this week...but I still can't get the damn preheat to turn itself off if I go 5 degree over 430 on preheat...(based on a stand alone oven thermometer).   I hate electronic ovens panels...they are never accurate.  But as long as I stick to 430 ...and cover 2 of the wall sensors...and keep the ceiling alarms hidden in the bedroom with the door closed...I can bake without setting off the alarms...as long as I turned on the exhaust fan, and open the windows.  LOL!  

It sucks...but at least I didn't have to turn off the oven and go down the fire stairs in my housecoat till the alarms stop.  No more early morning or late night baking for me...or risk my neighbors hanging me.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

check around inside the oven and make sure there are no oven baking sheets lurking on the inside bottom of the oven.  It's happened to me before so check to see.  Also make sure the exhaust isn't exiting the apartment near the open window.  In winter, I think my aunt used a doorstop to just keep the house door wedged open to pull in warm air instead of colder outside air when the fan was on.  Depends on the hallway air of course.  :)

You can actually bake at 430°F or 220°C a large array of breads.  Turning on the fan at the end of baking can give an extra kick to crusts as the oven will be hotter than the fan setting which is often 25°F  lower then upper/lower heat.  Most of my mini ovens that I've used over the years did not get above 220°C, they just took a little bit longer. If the crusts are getting too thick with a long bake, set the cooling rack over a large bowl or the sink and  throw a dish towel over the cooling loaf. That little bit of trapped steam with soften the crust and prevent it from drying out too much.  A nice trick when you want to go to bed with a loaf cooling.  

msneuropil's picture
msneuropil

I don't have any hidden pans...I have cleaned that oven to spotless to try and prevent problems.  Vent is clear...and there is NO convection or fan that turns on to prevent overheating of the electronics. 

No more cornmeal, bran or flour dusted peels...just too damn embarrassing to risk it anymore.   It is a standard GE cheap stove for senior apartments.  The exhaust fan...is a simple one attached under the over the stove microwave...I'd say it is not very helpful since it exhausts right below a smoke alarm on the ceiling.  OR DID.  Whoever designed these apartments should have never put alarms above an oven/sink area or outside the bathroom shower. 

My ceiling alarms are hidden in closet...LOL.  I still have 3 others...but at least they aren't sitting 3 ft away from the oven exhaust.  So now I have about a 12 ft area away...and the bedroom ones.  Why I need 5 alarms in a tiny apartment is baffling. 

I have been notorious in the past with ovens...had to replace 4 times in 20 years due to the electronics not able to handle the heat.  :P  Seriously!

OH WELL...I am bake to baking retro like I did in the 60's-80's. Using a cold pan,  preheated oven (no more than 430F).  It is working fair and I have been towel softening crusts when I am serving folks that can't handle the very crusty breads. 

Thanks Mini...I never thought about putting "hats" on my smoke alarms till you brought up some ideas.  I am amazed it is working.  NO alarms now for 3 weeks!!  That's a record!