Why make a hybrid SD starter/yeast bread like Ken Forkish?
Hello all,
I started my levain for two different doughs last night and began making the final doughs this AM. I have not regularly been doing the float test,and have been having some fairly good success,but decided to do it today. Neither of the two levains I made passed the test even though they had both gained 2 x - 3 x volume and had lots of activity/bubbles.
With one dough I just proceeded with the recipe as written and it is bulk fermenting now. With the other,different loaf I decided to use a Ken Forkish technique and juiced the dough with 1/4 tsp instant yeast (for a dough using 500 grams flour). I wanted to ensure an appropriate amount of rise/oven spring. I have two questions regarding this issue:
1) Why,in his book FWYS does Ken Forkish devote a small chapter to "hybrid doughs"? This follows his chapter on straight yeasted doughs. Is he just trying to give the reader some "training wheels" before he goes on to the next chapter which are straight SD recipes? Is there any reason other than ensuring good rise/oven spring that one would want to combine SD starter/levain and dry yeast?
2) I've done my research on the site already regarding the float test and there seems to be some dispute as to how reliable the float test is as an indicator of how much rise/oven spring you will get out of your dough. I have,and am using the NFNM rye starter I discovered here on the site. However,the starter used in these two doughs is a stiff (65%) unbleached,organic bread flour starter I received at a great local sourdough bakery where I took two of their classes. I have had success with this starter earlier in the week. As I have two doughs working,one with some yeast and the other with only SD I will be able to see what develops with each this afternoon as they ferment and I do SF's.
Any thoughts on these two questions will be greatly appreciated. Happy baking!
Best,
Vance
It's very clear that as a universal test the float test is a complete failure.
However, that doesn't mean it's not useful for the situations where it does apply. If you are using methods in which the float test is valid, then why not take advantage of it?
The trick is to find out which methods and situations those are. ?
David,thanks for the response. I discovered as the day proceeded that I was getting fine rise in both doughs. The dough in which I added some yeast bulk fermented probably too much/quickly and the dough in which I used only SD starter/levain rose a respectable/normal amount. It seems as though my concerns were misplaced. Both levain builds failed the float test and both doughs rose just fine.
Best,
Vance
You wrote: "Both levain builds failed the float test and both doughs rose just fine."
I've seen/heard this way too many times. I wonder just how many situations are valid for float tests. Maybe not many.
oldie but goodie
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20928/floating-dough-check
Keep in mind that dough usually has a lower hydration than many levains .
Mini,
Thanks for the response and the link to the interesting posts! While I have your attention would you care to comment on my first question, the one regarding the existence on hybrid )sd/yeast) doughs. Thanks so much.
Best,
Vance
I find hybrid doughs, those containing both sourdough and added yeast, are mainly done for scheduling and to perhaps reduce the fermenting time on the dough. It's another tool in the toolbox. Sourdough can be tricky to predict, wild cultures more so. More influenced by their environment than good old dependable commercial yeast.
Making a hybrid can also be a way to use up a sourdough culture that is weak in yeast. Let the sourdough culture bacteria flavour and the added yeast (or soda or baking powder) raise the dough. Include discard recipes.
I don't see hybrids as "cheating" but it does make one wonder how much benefit associated with sourdough applies to the loaf. Is it still a sourdough? Yes, but... to what degree? Is it important? Has it been proven or nur hearsay?
.
Thanks Mini! Your insights are great as always.
Best,
Vance
Not contradicting or minimizing any other reasons, but Forkish seems like the type of person who is just naturally curious to figure out ways of making bread. Obviously when there are two methods that each involve adding a raising agent to dough, and such a naturally-curious person happens to have some of each raising agent fresh and ready, he's going to say "What happens if we try a bit of both?"
The word "crutch" has been used disparagingly many times, but if you have a tough time on legs alone and the crutch improves your progress, then you'd be a fool to leave the crutch behind.
(The disparaging sense of "crutch" would be better expressed as "randomly exploding crutch", but that's not as guilt-inducing so they don't say it.)
I sometimed do it for scheduling reasons - I’d make a sourdough poolish and a final dough mix with yeast...just being practical...
a levain?