Layers in dough and dough structure
Hello everyone,
I have been baking 4kg of Champlains today and just as I was about to pre-shape and reached the end of bulk I came across this beautiful post from Benjamin Wolters aka beansterbaker on IG.... showing some dough with the most amazing layering and dough structure...https://www.instagram.com/p/Bubci53H8Vm/
He kindlly confirmed that he achieved those layers by mixing only without folding...
I remember seeing an example of layers like that in Trevor's book..
This made me think...how can I use the look of dough cross-section to learn
/diagnose about my dough.....
Here is an example of my layers - sniff...sniff...
So, it the amount of layers when we divide a dough after bulk a good indication of whether we developed the dough structure well and judged the end of bulk correctly?
I would say from this one that I could have developed more structure and tried to remedy this in the pre-shape which was ok and will bake tomorrow.
I tried to develop gluten upfront with a 5 hour AL, mix leaven in and wait 30 min, then add salt and slap and folds. I gave coil folds at 30, 60, 120, 180 and dough was 82% hydration Champlain dough from Trevor Wilson.
Are the amount of layers as from Benjamin on IG achievable with hand-mixing and slap and folds?
I would really appreciate your thoughts? Kat
Is Benjamin mixing by hand or in a mixer?
he must be using a mixer judging from the IG posts and the set up of the bakery. There are are some older posts where he seems to use tubs for bulk fermentation and this led me to think he combines mechanical mixing with bulk in containers and folding during bulk to some degree.
There are so many ways of doing this...
I have been thinking a lot about the impact of mixing and just reading Michael Suas where he states on page 61:
Although too much oxygen is bad, some is necessary. The micro cells of air that are introduced into the dough system during mixing play an important role later in the baking process by forming the core of the crumb structure. During fermentation, the gas produced by the yeast accumulates in these micro cells and forms the cell structure of the crumb or alveoles.
Sooooo...this made me think...I am basically setting the scene right at the beginning during mixing by deciding how many micro cells I have created? How can I best do this when hand-mixing? At the moment it is AL, combined with Rubaud and or slap and folds for bigger batches but probably need sooner or later a mixer? Kat
I, too,have been thinking about this. I've pondered injecting air in to the dough after kneading to see if there would be any effect.
In the infamous Chorleywood breadmaking process, the high speed Tweedy mixer can be designed to have an air top pressure and vacuum facility.
Compressed air is normally applied near the start of mixing and vacuum near the end (the whole mix only takes a few mins). An aid to achieving the desired crumb structure.
It would be interesting to know if bread made at high altitude has different crumb structure. Any Colorado residents here?
Lance
it will have to be achieved in my case for now with either Rubaud or Slap and Folds! Kat
All good questions and I wish I knew the answers. I've been thinking about this issue a lot as well. I think that for a commercial baker, the type of mixer arm used can't be replicated by a home baker using a kitchenaid dough attachment. And given that often the dough will get foil coils in big rectangular bins along the way (after mechanical mixing) also helps to build structure. I think the best way for a home baker to do this is primarily with coil folds and would even argue that slap/folds or rubaud are less important and maybe not even needed. I'm about to bake a loaf to test that theory.. The dough had some of the best structure I've created and I only used coil folds. Let's see when I bake..
the result of your findings...
Adam Pagor aka @season_adam recently posted a hand mixed batch of about 4 loaves and I asked him about developing gluten upfront well with a batch like this...his answer was to just to add a few more folds...which would go with what you are saying.....
Trevor recently posted a blog on IG where he showed a handmixed dough close to full development with a full windowpane...
I love handmixing and for now this will be my method but looking into the future a good mixer might be on the horizon and considering volume of dough.......
I think one key element is also how much air you can get into a dough with a spiral mixer rather than handmixing. So I think Rubaud combined with slaps and folds are a good way to oxidise the bread without the risk of doing too much like with a mixer...
Also getting the water/flour hydration right...... I saw in a number in places that the mixing defines the 'mini-bubbles' the moment water hits the flour and that those with good fermentation going to be inflated later....so suddenly another penny drops and an area before totally not considered that much turns crucial...ha, ha...the joy of it! Kat
Kat, I suspect the linked IG pic looks good simply because there is a large volume of dough, so it pours out nice and thick on the worktop.
I do have a future experiment running round my head to ferment my normal weight of dough in a narrow but tall container to see if it makes any difference!
Lance
and in fact the question I asked was whether the amount of dough makes a difference with regards to achieving layers easier. I noticed that I seem to achieve it more when I bake a larger amount of loaves....mind you...it could be that I only notice more as I need to divide more...but now I see all these beautiful images of bulk dumps and see layers and layers and layers....
For all of those lucky people with mixers here is a post from matts_miche with a really useful post on mixing and other people sharing...I will put it somewhere for the future and a mixer is on the wishlist...but first need to build space to put it somewhere...ha, ha, ha....
https://www.instagram.com/p/BsOWIRZnDfe/
Have you tried the laminating method as shown here? I just found Full Proof Baking yesterday, and am giving her method a go today. Fingers crossed that I'll finally end up with an open crumb.
is great with both her IG posts as well as you tube tutorials...and makes amazing bread. I have tried lamination for only one loaf but I am looking at mixing up to 5 loaves and that‘s when Kristen‘s approach does not quite work...The best solution so far has been a video from the Ecole internationale de Boulangerie that Carole aka Designing Woman recommended to me and deals with higher volume of dough hand-mixed. Happy baking!
Before my comment, I'll state that there are certainly different strokes for different folks.
I skipped around the video and the loaf she produced was lovely and seemed top notch with an unquestionable open crumb.
But Holy Moly! Van Gogh could have painted Starry Night in the time it took for her to do all of those steps. I know that it's a hobby, as it is with me, and an obsession, as it is with others not named "me", but gee whiz. The Empire State Building could have been well under construction in the time it seems to take her here. Actually the Empire State Building took a full 11 months to build ~85 years ago.
I won't necessarily argue with success, as in this case. But this seems a tad on the extreme end of dough prep. It's a piece of dough - the basics are fairly simple: mix it, fold it, retard it, divide and shape it.
As the subject line reads "to each his/her own".
Okay Doc, I'm ready to go back to my cell quietly now...
and always enjoy your thoughts.......isn't it beautiful though how we all approach baking in such a different way? I am just final ambient proofing a 50/50 cold bulk as I have not much retarding space and a cold bulk would mean that I can make more loaves beyond the volume in my little wine cooler and exploring methods that are scaleable....
I am very bad at judging ambient proof and watching the dough like a hawk not to run away! Kat