Newbie help
Hi, I'm completely new to sour dough and am just trying to get my starter going. I've tried twice and have hit the same issue each time.
I'm using a 'recipe' from Paul Hollywoods Bread Book (flour, water and grapes). Each time I've put in the ingredients and it's bubbled up really well. I've then discarded half the mixture soon after it started to drop and fed it with more flour and water. But each time that seems to have completely killed it. It then just separates and it's runny on top with thicker stuff at the bottom. I get a brown film on top of all of that and the grapes are going white (mouldy?).
I've tried discarding half and feeding but it never changes.
The first time I thought it had got too cold (it is January) but the second time I've used a thermometer and kept it in the right range of temps really carefully.
Can anyone help?
Thanks in advance!
And recipe? A bit more detail please!
Try this recipe...
https://youtu.be/SuU0xmqEZyI
Just some suggestions to add though:
1: don't worry about the exact flour. Any will do, wholegrain is better and wholegrain rye even better!
2: for the initial mix use pure pineapple juice instead of water and do not proceed onto the next feed until it bubbles up. After which switch to water.
3: keep warm. Around 25°C is perfect (77°F)
4: if it slows down then don't be in a rush to re-feed. This is perfectly normal but if you keep it warm it shouldn't slow down too much.
5: patience, patience, patience
Thanks! The recipe I was using was 250g flour, 250ml water and some grapes. I think I might give your suggestion a go – just quite fun experimenting for now.
Thanks for the recipe. I'm trying it now but have a hit a snag. I used pineapple juice as you recommended and it was all going perfectly for the first few days. I held off a little on the first feed as you suggested until the bubbles were properly there. It then grew really quickly and so I fed it a little early (the day 4 feed) as I thought it was going to overflow my jar at the rate it was going. And since that feed it's pretty much done nothing. No rise and possibly just some tiny bubbles but nothing like it was before. Am I just being impatient again or did I mess it up by feeding it early?
Also, I wouldn't say I've had a really sour smell at any point in the process. There's been a bit of a smell but nothing really sour.
Any suggestions?
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Perfectly normal. If it goes quiet then you skip a feed or two. Keep it warm and give it a stir every 12 hours. Once you see more activity then give it another feed. The mixture will get more liquid as it ferments so you won't see a big bubbling up as before but it'll have lots of small bubbles and it'll become along like. When you start feeding again with fresh flour it'll rise more. Lots of people think they've done something wrong at this stage and give up or start again but it's fine.
Great, I’ll keep going!
Sorry to keep bugging you – thanks again for your help. I skipped a feed and then had a brown liquidy film on top so I scooped that off, gave it a stir and fed it again. I've since seen a few bubbles on top but nowhere near where it was before and still no rise. Can you advise what I'm looking for next and roughly when it should happen by? While 'nothing' is happening should I just be stirring every 12 hours and waiting?
Add a few teaspoons of flour to thicken it up and keep going. Keep warm and give it a stir every now and again.
What does it smell like an can you post a photo?
Thanks, I took the first two photos before adding flour and the last photo after stirring a few teaspoons in. There were some very small bubbles before stirring in and after there are definitely some bubbles forming again. I'm doing my best to keep it warm – it's -1 here in Sheffield but I've got it on my heated clothes dryer with a thermometer and it's generally not dropping below the mid 70s (F).
Smell – I'd say a little bit acidic but not very strong. Maybe a little like vinegar (I'm not good describing smells!)
I've seen on this forum a suggestion to add some apple cider vinegar. Is that worth a try at some point?
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If fine for the first feed or two but you're beyond that now. The difference between 70°F and 78°F will be noticed. Push on! Only way around is through. Persevere.
Keep it as warm as you can and give it a stir every now and again. If it's been longer than 24 hours since the last few tsp of flour you've added and it's getting very liquid again then add some more just to thicken it up. Last photo looks more promising than the first one. It's slow but going in the right direction.
You did miss one of our hottest summers on record to decide to make a sourdough starter in the winter. You do like a challenge :)
I only got into baking late last year and was just a bit keen to move on and so didn't wait for the opportune temperatures! I'll keep going and try my best to keep it at the right temp.
Thanks for you all your help.
I think the grapes turned white because they were water logged. No biggie and you can remove them anytime after three days as I'm sure the yeast has fallen into the the water by then. Although, it is fun to watch them rise and fall as gas builds up in them.
If you still have the starter, it may be too thin to rise but you may see small tiny bubbles rising up the sides of the glass. The separation ( flour sinking) confirms to me that the starter is perhaps too thin. Have you tried it in dough? The dark fluid on top could easily be hooch. Is it colored, clear or cloudy? How does it smell? How old is it now?
There is often activity from the start followed by a lull but the changes going on are on the microscopic level and take time to change and build up until we see evidence that all is well. Skim off any surface gunk then give it a good stir.
Thanks, think I'll try the recipe posted above but will see if I can get anything going again with your suggestions here. My concern is that it's gone as I'm not really seeing any bubbles but we'll see.
The film is a darker colour (quite brown) the thicker stuff below. It smells sour but not quite like the initial smell when the mixture bubbled up well.
I'll give it some more time!
how old is it? Take a clean spoonful or two from the bottom and add 40g water and 50g flour and see how long it takes to peak. Be sure to cover it.
It's less than a week old and is closer to liquid than anything with any substance. There doesn't seem to be any activity. Granted I'm completely new to this. What sort of consistency should it have?
i wouldn't dump it just yet. I thought it might be a few days older. You could discard and just add some mor flour to make something close to pancake batter. Or stick to the directions. It may take a week.
Forget the grapes and the pineapple juice. The grapes have the wrong kind of yeast for sourdough.
In addition to flour and water, the ingredient that has helped me by far the most is diastatic malt powder. 1/2 teaspoon in your starter will make it take off.
https://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/items/diastatic-malt-powder-16-oz
I would suggesting not to complicate things and just use flour and water or pineapple juice and no grapes. Peter Reinhart's sourdough starter recipe is good as is Teresa Greeway's. I bought her booklet off Amazon but you can also read the booklet for free on-line, similar starter and they work very works..
My starter came to life when I let it rise in my oven with the oven light on and the door open all night or day. I could not believe it, that did the trick.. I guess what they say about temperature is definitely important..
" Get the FREE companion e-book here: https://thebakingnetwork.com/free-sou...
I have watched so many video's I'm almost crazy and almost gave up but I have managed to get a good sourdough starter recipe from these folks that are hardy and work well.
Seriously - this is what held me up for a couple of years in my initial two attempts to get going with sourdough baking. Same as you, my starters seemed to get going really well and then just 'die' (usually going through a horrible stinky patch just beforehand).
What I now know is that they had NOT died - what was happening is just that there are other types of microbial activity going on, slowly and silently, that are gradually increasing the acidity of your starter to the point that the desired yeasts and lactic acid bacterial can get going.
Keep feeding and discarding and be patient. All will come good.
One of the problems with sourdough baking is that there is a lot of myth and legend floating around that is not always based on scientific truth. If you want to know a bit more about what is going on in your starter, have a read of this extremely important post on this site a few years ago - this was a turning point in my understanding: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10856/pineapple-juice-solution-part-1. I've lost count of the number of people I've referred to that post, for good reason.