The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Can I retard long rise no knead bread?

wvdthree's picture
wvdthree

Can I retard long rise no knead bread?

Hello all,

              Well,I was excited yesterday to,for the first time,start Jim Lahey's no knead bread dough. Unfortunately,the two dogs literally ate my homework :<(  Yes,1.5 pounds of rising bread dough and saran wrap this morning at 8:00! So,$130 veterinarian bill and several hours later I am back at it.

 

     I'm not sure why but I really didn't think thru the schedule when I remade my dough this morning. I made it at 9:00 am and Jim suggests a 12-18 hour room temperature rise. I know my kitchen is at 70-71 degrees. So,it should be done somewhere between 9 PM and 3 AM when I will hopefully be sleeping. My fear is that if I let it rise until I get up at 6 AM that it will be way over risen. Can I retard the dough in the refrigerator tonight when I go to bed at 10 PM and if so,should I put the bowl in the frig as is or should I de-gas it? I could take it out anytime tomorrow anytime after 6 AM. If I can approach it in this manner,once taking it out of the frig should I shape it and put it into my 9" banneton to rise for two hours,test for proper proofing with the finger test and then bake?

     I could take a stab at how to approach this myself but as I have access to such a great learning community I thought I would avail myself to their expertise. Any tips on how I can save this dough will be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much!

 

Best,

         Vance

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Abe's picture
Abe

And sounds like the way to go. It is a no knead bread however I'd give it a stretch and fold before refrigerating. A letter fold one way then the other. De-gas it some. Then place the bowl in a plastic bag in the fridge for the night. If it's going to be ready sometime between 9pm and 3am I'd jump the gun and get it into the fridge for 8pm. Give the dough time to slow down as it'll carry on in the fridge, albeit more slowly, and if you put it in at 9pm it may over ferment. You can always see how it's doing come morning and carry on but I think it'll be ready to shape and final proof. If you wish to be extra careful then aim to get it into the fridge for 7pm or even asap. You can always continue the next day with the bulk ferment. 

Glad the dogs are doing ok. 

wvdthree's picture
wvdthree

Abe,

       Thanks much for the suggestions! I'll retard in frig early tonight and take it out in the AM. I am around all day tomorrow so I can accommodate any schedule I need to. Yes,the dogs,two very energetic labs who are fixated on food or anything that smells like food,like my sons othodontic retainer ;<( !!! I'll let you know how the bread turns out.

 

Regards,

               Vance

Abe's picture
Abe

That's so funny. What's not so funny was that your bread turned out to be the most expensive loaf ever!

Looking forward to the results.

wvdthree's picture
wvdthree

Hello Abe or anyone,

                                  Checking in to see if I should pitch my dough in the bin. My dough after mixing was out at room temp 70-71 degrees for thirteen hours yesterday. At the end of that time it had only risen maybe 25 percent and had not gotten any more supple/slack etc. and did not have any bubbles in it. I was going to bed at that point and debated if I should leave it out or retard it in the frig. I decided to put it in the frig. I woke up this morning 8.5 hours later and pulled the dough out of the frig. It virtually had not moved. Still only 25-30 percent expansion,not more slack and no real bubbles. Still a fairly tight (it has spread out a bit) and shaggy dough. I decided to hang on to it for the moment and see if I can resurrect it. I put in the room downstairs which contains the hot water heater and gas furnace which is running as I live in Wisconsin. It is 5 + degrees warmer in that room.

 

     I used 1/4 teaspoon active dry yeast (for 400 grams flour) and used water at normal tap temperature. Not cold but not 90-95. I have read that you do not need to dissolve active dry yeast prior to mixing nor do you need to prove it. I added all four ingredients at once. I'll see for myself over time today if it comes to life but I thought I'd see what other folks think and why is is not rising. My guess is that since it did not exhibit any real action in the first 13 hours at room temp that the dough will probably not start rising at this point. The active dry yeast package is fresh,just having purchased it four days ago and having read the date on it. Also I used the same yeast on my no knead dough from two days ago (which my dogs ate-see above) and it was doing very well during its 12 hours bulk fermentation at room temperature. Any thoughts as to why this happened will be appreciated. I don't mind starting over,I just want to avoid it happening again if possible. Thanks for any advise you could provide.

 

Best,

         Vance

 

    

Abe's picture
Abe

I'd wait and see. Give it another few hours. If you see things are happening then fine. If not then I'd add extra yeast and carry on.

It would have already had many hours so no need to add only a little and wait another so many hours. Dissolve a teaspoon of dried yeast in a little warm sugar water. Add in some flour to make a paste and wait till it activates. Not taking any chances this time. Once bubbly add it to the dough and knead till fully distributed and nice dough is formed. Then carry on as normal.

wvdthree's picture
wvdthree

Abe,

       Thanks for taking the time to comment and checking back in with me. What a great forum and learning center! I will proceed as you suggest. I just went back to find my source which claimed that active dry yeast does not need to be dissolved or proved and I discovered that it was on King Arthurs website. They did a side by side comparison of bread dough made for rolls and could not detect a difference between the two methods.

 

https://blog.kingarthurflour.com/2015/09/25/active-dry-yeast/

 

Thanks again Abe and I'll keep you posted.

 

Regards,

               Vance

Abe's picture
Abe

But on top of the reassurance (doesn't mean it can't be done even if only to make sure it's still healthy before making the dough) it's also easier to incorporate when "saving" a dough that's already made.

We'll get a loaf of bread for you come what may :)

wvdthree's picture
wvdthree

Hello,
          I wanted to get back to the community as several or you have been kind enough to help me through this no knead bread baking process. On day one I made the dough at nine am for some reason and left it at room temp (71 degress) until nine pm. It hadn’t risen that much or developed that much in terms of large surface bubbles but I didn’t want to leave it on the counter until six when I get up as that would have been 21 hours. So, I put it in the frig. At six am I took it out from the frig and it had spread out a bit and maybe added 25 % of volume but it seemed to me like it still hadn’t taken off.

     I moved it into the small room in my house which contains my gas furnace and hot wate heater. The room was 76 degrees. I seemed to take off a bit better in that environment so I left it there. I made a post asking for advice and Abe suggested added a warmish water,yeast,flour mix (proof to make sure it is really active) and add it to the existing dough. I ended up not deciding to do that and just see what happened to the existing dough. At four pm I brought the dough to my kitchen and stretched and folded it nd formed it into a nice,fairly taught ball. I let it proof until doubled and it passed the finger poke test after about 2 hours 15 minutes in the 76 degree room.

     I turned the dough over from the banneton onto the work surface and one part of the dough got a bit stuck up on the banneton reeds and made a small rip which was probably one of the expansion tears/rips in the finished boule. I baked it in a Lodge 4 qt DO for 30 minutes at 475 degrees and 20 minutes at 450 degrees. It looked great and passed the knocking test on the bottom so took it out. Did not take it’s temp. It seemed to have a fairly nice oven spring.

     Overall I am quite happy with the results,this being my first time and all. Nice deep crust,even on top and bottom,crumb was fairly open although did not have “irregular” larger open holes. More a consistent pattern of medium holes. The taste of both the crust and crumb were quite nice,maybe more developed flavor due to it’s long fermentation/retardation. One comment is that the boule has a nicely domed shape but is a bit uneven on the top. I am open to all comments but I have two questions based on some photos I’ll post.

In looking at my dough after 22 hours of bulk fermentaion and nine hours of retardation (in the middle of the two bulk fermentation times) does the dough seem fully developed to you? It doesn’t seem to have the really poofy texture with a real surface of large gassy holes. As I said it struggled to ever get up to the ‘doubled in size” mark. One interesting thing is that even though I use 20 grams more water (per Basbr’s forum posting tweak of Lahey’s recipe) the dough never got soupy and was quite easily shaped and formed on my work surface. None of the soupy,super slack dough which seem to frustrate many novices like me.

In looking at my finished shots does the crust look well developed and does the shot of the crumb tell you anything I do not see regarding the quality of the finished dough that went into the oven? Should I be striving for more larger,irregular holes and if so how do I develop them. Because the holes were smaller and tighter a slice served as a nice foil for some butter and jam on my son’s slice. I had a slice plain and thought it was quite nice. Does bread with larger more irregular holes taste better because of the holes? Are the larger holes indicative of how the dough was fermented,handled,proofed? What is the relationship between a more open crumb and taste.Just trying to understand the importance of and reason behind more open crumbs. As has been pointed out by others,I don’t mind a slightly tighter crumb as it holds toppings better.

     Well,for those of you who have stuck with me,thank you! I thought my novella would provide the most thorough background from which readers could offer informed responses. Thanks in advance for your time and comments.

Best,
        Vance







Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Maybe a little tired, next time try flipping it out of the banneton sooner, just before it looks doubled.  Let the oven do some of the raising work too.  All in all you did a good job!  You can be glad you didn't give up too soon. :)

wvdthree's picture
wvdthree

Thanks Mini! I'll try that next loaf.

 

Best,

        Vance

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

to my oven time so I'm here too!   

Baking pecan buttermilk muffins.  Oh they smell so good!  

A quarter tsp yeast is not much, you can dump a lot in now like several teaspoons.  Wheat flour?

wvdthree's picture
wvdthree

Hi Mini,

             1/4 tsp is all the recipe called for,I guess due to the long bulk fermentation at room temp, 18 hours. I used 100% white bread flour,no ww. Thanks Mini.

 

Regards,

              Vance

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

with the bread flour you have a long working time.  Work in the yeast paste and then the dough will rise quickly using th warmth from your hands and the boiler.  It may go fast so keep a sharp eye on it.  Like you said, the flavour is there from the long ferment, now get it risen! Yes!   

Winter in WI.  Ah so many childhood memories!   ...and these muffins are good too.  A big fat cup of coffee to go with them.  :)