The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Reinhart's Sprouted WW: completely flat

brec's picture
brec

Reinhart's Sprouted WW: completely flat

I made Sprouted Whole Wheat Bread from Peter Reinhart's Bread Revolution, p. 63. It's a yeast bread with 90% hydration. I fresh-milled Breadtopia's Hard Red Spring Sprouted Wheat Berries. After proofing, the dough spread on the peel and exhibited no oven spring. It had a flavor that I recognized but at first I couldn't quite verbalize; then I realized: it tastes like pizza dough! (It's been years since I've eaten pizza.)

In sum, quite edible, but an inconvenient shape. What might have led to the lack of strength and rise?

(I started my home-made bread journey about six weeks ago. I know just enough to be dangerous.)

 

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

it overproofed. Judging how much to let it rise before baking can be tricky but experience will help with that. 

brec's picture
brec

...how to judge when a loaf in a banneton has risen 50%, or 100%, or whatever. For bulk, where, say, a doubling is called for, I use graduated see-through containers.

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

is using the poke test. Poke your dough with a well floured finger. If the impression fills in right away, the dough is not ready. If the impression stays intact, then the dough is overproofed. If the impression fills back slowly about half way, get that thing into the oven! It’s ready!

If you accidentally overproof the dough, pop it out if it’s basket, and reshape it. That will redistribute the yeast or beasties, and let it rise about 50%. Then bake. You will get some oven spring. 

 

brec's picture
brec

I've been doing 100% whole wheat high-hydration. My pokes typically result in dough sticking to my finger even when I remember to flour it.

I've read about poke testing, but I haven't encountered the overproofed recovery trick before. I'll keep that in mind!

albacore's picture
albacore

Maybe your flat loaf is something to do with using sprouted flour, especially if using it in high proportion?

My understanding is that the sprouting increases enzymatic activity in the flour, which might degrade gluten.

Plus if you're not sifting any bran out, it's an uphill battle to get a well risen loaf.

 

Lance

brec's picture
brec

...in a book dedicated to sprouted and whole grains and heirloom flours.

This loaf was baked three days ago. Since then I've started sifting, and then re-milling the bran twice. But I haven't done that with any sprouted grain as yet.

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

prior to using it in the dough and if you have some starter, put some of that in there too to soften it up. Soaking it overnight or for a couple of days should help. 

hanseata's picture
hanseata

I baked breads from Reinhart‘s „Bread Revolution“ several times, and agree with the others. As Reinhart explains, sprouted flours ferment much faster than regular ones.

For this reason, these are the only doughs I don‘t retard (my usual to-go procedure), because they don‘t benefit from it. 

For poking sticky doughs, I dip my finger in flour first, or poke through plastic foil, so that nothing sticks.

I like the sprouted breads, my only gripe with the book is the fact that there are hardly any new recipes in there, mostly old ones from his earlier books, converted to sprouted flours.

Happy Baking,

Karin

brec's picture
brec

...experience -- slowly.

For anyone who might want to follow this particular recipe in this book (p. 63): "3 1/4 cups" of water should be "1 3/4 cups." This is evident from the weights and from the baker's percentage.

brec's picture
brec

that's just a reprint of the recipe in the book, and the picture in the book. The thread looks interesting though -- lots of problems similar to mine. I haven't had a chance to read it all as yet.

Abe's picture
Abe

...and I thought this was a post of a bake he did. I didn't read it properly either. Just searched for this recipe.

If the bread is flat and doesn't hold the shape then you need to look at...

  • 1: hydration for flour being used.
  • 2: gluten formation.
  • 3: fermentation.

Actually, practically every part to bread making so I'm not being much help either.

May I suggest you try a slight adjustment with the first two and watch carefully the ferment.

  • 1: lower the hydration to 80% (just for now).
  • 2: knead a bit more than called for.
  • Then for 3: better under than over.
dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

happen.  No autolyse for sprouted flour is required because it is already autolysed with a ton of enzymes when sprouted.  When sprouted flour gets to be more than 40% of the mix it become very fast and different.  Like Karin says, doing a retard for bulk is asking for over fermenting if the standard 10-12 hours, even 8 is very long,  and a shaped retarded proof is also very fast and asking for over-proofing if you are trying to sleep on it.  Both lead to flat loaves like this one.  It took me a long time, much of 2013 and 2014 to figure out how to handle sprouted flour in breads to have them come out right.  Here is a post from 2014 that speaks to these issues that has 20% sprouted multigrain flour and 50% whole grains overall.

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/40526/multigrain-sd-sprouted-2-ways

Sprouted bread is the best but it a totally di

Happy SD bakingfferent beast when it comes to procedure and timing

brec's picture
brec

100% sprouted WW. No autolyse nor retard. Mix, S&F 4x over the course of an hour or less, bulk until doubled; shape, proof until +50% in size -- I haven't figured out a way to gauge that in a banneton -- or(?) poke test, then bake.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

ball of dough into it,  When it rises 50% then the dough in the basket has also risen 50% too

Here is another one at 25% sprouted grains and 50% whole grains overall from 2014

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/40604/sprouted-multi-farro-sd

here are 2 at 50% sprouted in 2015

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/43686/double-levain-100-whole-wheat-half-sprouted-100-hydration

and a 100% sprouted one from 2016 at 100% hydration baked in a pan

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/49598/100-sprouted-8-grain-sourdough-100-hydration

Pretty much everyone that tried Peter's recipe for 100% WW ended up with a bread like yours so it is the recipe that need fixing I would say.