The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Medium Rye?

Abe's picture
Abe

Medium Rye?

To approximate medium rye can I mix 50:50 whole and white rye flour?

Doing a Borodinsky bread this weekend.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

amount of bran in the flour.  Not coarse, not fine grind but Medium:-)  Sadly, like Stan Ginsberg says, each miller has a different definition for rye flour types in the USA but not so in Europe,  Where you are.  Medium Rye should be available especially in Germany and Holland

Abe's picture
Abe

I'm following The Rye Baker's recipe.

He calls for medium rye in the sponge and scald then whole rye flour in the main dough. 

I have two types of rye. This is a Polish rye flour type 720 which is described as medium and looks like white rye. I'm thinking of using this for the sponge and scald. 

And I have this wholegrain rye for the main dough. Darker and a bit coarser. 

I've done this recipe before using all the wholegrain but it comes out much darker than Stan's. I realise that the medium rye I have is probably white rye but the correct grind. Do you think my plan of using the Polish rye for the medium and the wholegrain for the main dough will be a good one? 

suave's picture
suave

This bread is generally made with whole rye flour.

PS. I use Polish 720 quite a bit - it's a white rye, no question about it.

Abe's picture
Abe

I'll stick to whole rye and save the Polish 720 for another rye bread. Any recommendations are welcome! 

Filomatic's picture
Filomatic

Abe, I've made Stan's recipe from the book a few times now.  I used medium rye obtained from Central Milling (https://centralmilling.com/product/organic-medium-white-rye-flour/), and whole grain rye ground finely in my own mill for the other rye flour called for in the recipe.

I think you can approximate medium rye if you simply sifted finely ground whole rye.  The sifted bits could be used the whole grain rye portion of the dough or used for your next levain or rye sourdough.

It is my favorite bread of any I've made.

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/54464/borodinsky-rye-rye-baker

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/54868/borodinsky-4xmas

Phil

 

Abe's picture
Abe

Lovely bakes there. I remember the first one. Great crumb! 

I've made this a few times with some tasty results. But I've always just stuck to wholegrain rye. Want to attempt it again using the flour required in the recipe. So far all I've seen is wholegrain, white and cracked rye. 

So after all my planning I realised I didn't have enough salt in the house. Only had 6 grams left. By the time I decided to work around that I didn't have anything else prepared. So I've made a small loaf with 300g flour. 90% bread flour and 10% wholegrain. Making the 6g salt 2% of the flour. Final dough was 70% hydration with 4% whole starter @ 70% hydration (refreshed a few days ago). 

Bulk fermented for 12 hours with one set of stretch and folds in the 9th hour. Shaped and final proofed for two hours. Made a lovely loaf. Based of Teresa Greenway's SF bread. 

No time for a Borodinsky now. Just bought some salt and to satisfy the rye phase I'm going through I've just done this yeasted recipe. About to final proof. Used cracked rye instead of buckwheat and wholegrain red fife instead of pastry flour. Good to get some wholegrains in there. 

Filomatic's picture
Filomatic

Please post photos when they’re done!

Abe's picture
Abe

 

Delicious!

 

Final proofing. More tomorrow...

Abe's picture
Abe

Impossible to get out of the loaf pan.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

whatcha smear on it?  Dust with anything?     

Please don't give up on it for an itty bitty little sticky problem.  Smear & Dust the pan bottom next time with some crumbs, seeds, chopped nuts or something.  :). Flour if nothing else.  It can help. Go half way up the sides for good measure. (Esp. With lose yummy little green squash seeds.)

Rye loaves can be very soft until they cool and set, if you can feel the loaf sticking, just let it cool in the pan longer or give it another 5 min in the oven and steam the loaf free with its own steam.   ...and keep a cool head.  Easier said than done and when all excited about a new loaf, it's even harder.  I get it.  I've done it too wishing I hadn't rushed it.   Pour a cupper and wait it out.

Abe's picture
Abe

But left half of the base behind. Got a knife, scrapped it off and attached it. Back in the oven to seal it and as long as it's underneath you wouldn't know the difference. Very dark loaf as trying to dry it out to get it unstuck. Such a shame as everything else went ok. Smell is wonderful but such a shame it stuck and is now a bit burned with a hole in the bottom. 

I used olive oil.

My loaf pan is cheap supermarket tat. Perhaps I need a new one. I would love a pullman loaf pan. 

Mike Avery's picture
Mike Avery

I find oil alone doesn't help release loaves very well.  Dusting with flour helps.

Or, if you're lazy like me, you can use a spray with flour in it such as Baker's Joy, Baker's Secret or the PAM spray that has flour in it.

-Mike

Abe's picture
Abe

Lesson learned the hard way. Not only does olive oil not help it creates a dark and very crispy crust. I'll add some flour and/or nuts and seeds next time. 

I'll also look out for oil sprays that have flour in them too. 

...and I thought just wiping the pan with a splash of olive oil would work wonders Lol. Can laugh about it now but wasn't funny when I realised it ain't coming out. 

Can't wait to taste it. 

Abe's picture
Abe

A bed of nuts and seeds. Worse result it doesn't stick. Best result I get a lovely tasty coating on my bread. It's so easy to give up when things go awry after working hard. I'm back to being calm and collected! And if not for this little misshap I wouldn't have your great idea for my next loaf. 

Thank you Mini. 

P.s. so it has a little gap in the bottom. It's still a good loaf :)

DesigningWoman's picture
DesigningWoman

I'm so sorry about the chain of mishaps, after all the careful planning and then the resourcefulness of coming up with a plan B!

But the loaf looks wonderful anyway, and with your blend of flours, I'm sure it'll be really tasty.

For greasing pans, I've taken to using deodorised coconut oil and that seems to work quite well for things like cakes and your famous banana bread. 

I can only imagine the rush of adrenaline. Mini's right, often, if you let things cool down a bit, your loaf should pull away from the pan just enough to make it releaseable. A coating of seeds will bemail yummy!

Enjoy the fruits of your labor,and keep on baking 😊

Carole 

Abe's picture
Abe

Turned out really nice. Had some toasted for breakfast. That's always a great recipe. Must admit I did panic a bit with the rye but looking back perhaps I over reacted to the base coming away a bit. The loaf wasn't completely spoiled and will get a few unspoiled slices out of it. I'm always preaching it's the taste that counts :) Perhaps I should take heed of my own advice. Difficult when you spend time on it for it to not come out perfect.

Oooh I've seen coconut oil spray. Perhaps I should give that a try. If it works well for cakes and that delicious banana bread it should do well for rye.

Funny thing was I knew at the back of my mind as I was shaking the thing to dislodge the bread it wasn't a very good idea.

Taste tonight!

Abe's picture
Abe

This is a delicious bread. I'm very happy with it. Minor technical issues with the bread sticking to the pan (now it seems minor but not yesterday) but such a lovely recipe. It is all in the taste. I'm calling this a success and worth repeating. Without the mishap if I can help it :)

DesigningWoman's picture
DesigningWoman

Looks lovely. Thin crust, must've tasted great! Roll on a repeat ☺

Carole