This is the next video in the long awaited and eagerly anticipated series (OK, maybe not). It's on shaping dough, and I hope you enjoy it.
Wow Mark, I am really learning alot from your videos.
Its good to see some techniques that I already do and be able to polish them up, but then it is also nice to see how others do things and give them a try to see how they work for you.
I couldnt find anything wrong with that video. I thought the music was great, the angle of the shots was exellent, very clear and again your descriptions clear and easy to understand.
Thanks to you, I have begun to use an old unused stockpot as my fermenting bowl it has a lid and all and I wish I had have thought of it months and months ago :) and I can now study how you shape your rolls. I shape my boules the same, but I havent been able to get the rolls to work with only one hand to shape them :)
I like your batard shaping. I am going to do some experiments :) and will see if my bagguettes turn out any better with your technique. These have been a great source of information, thank again Mark!
I enjoyed it.
one critique from my son: voice could sound a little more enthusiastic and less monotone.
Thanks for this vidoe. I have watched it 3 times already this morning (4:00 am - couldn't sleep).
Now I will have to try the roll technique. I believe you said your wife was doing the camera work? Nice job, nice angles to make everything clear.
I really liked these videos. I could have used some shaping help around 2pm yesterday (off of work for Mardi Gras), but your kneading video definately helped me get a better dough. Thanks a lot.
This is good, Mark. I like it a lot. (I didn't think your voice sounded monotone at all. It sounds gentle and unjarring.) I especially like to see this method of shaping without a lot of flour on the bench. I usually work with quite slack dough and haven't had the nerve to try shaping without flour. But next time I make sandwich bread, I'll try shaping without flour.
Four things I would have liked to see:
It might also be nice to briefly show the baked loaves and rolls during the credits.
Many thanks to you and your wife for this series.
Thanks so much for making these videos. The shaping was very informative and I'm definately going to have to watch and try them myself. (I'm not good at shaping and tend to just stick to loaf pans because of it.)
Thanks again, they are very well done videos.
I especially liked the part about shaping rounds. And your voice is fine - you're narrating a baking demonstration, not a magic show.
It's fun to see how someone else shapes their bread. I can do the two-handed roll making; the rolls always look the same, whether made by my left or my right hand, but I've never been able to make my left hand be the same shape as my right. You do it well. Also, I have one plastic banneton, but all the rest are wood. I find that the dough sticks a bit more in the plastic versus the wood. What is your take?
I love the whole series of video's you have done. The 2 of you do very good work. When I knead, I don't "double clutch" like you do . I will try it next time to get that all elusive surface tension. It sounds like everyone has enjoyed your work, vererans as well as newbies. Ya'll get a big 'atta boy!
Very nice. Great shots, music, and narration. I wish I could be so laid back, and I envy your clean countertop!
I'm glad you people have enjoyed the videos. For brevity's sake, I left out lots, but I didn't want to bore someone looking for 'just shaping' or 'just folding'. Anyway, here's the answers to some of your queries:
position and shape the arc of your hands when making the rolls - I have some multigrain rolls to make for tomorrow, so I'll film from a few angles and post that later separately.
show the degassing - This I have filmed already, but I edited it out. I'll put that in a future video.
seam side up or seam side down in the baskets- Seams are up in the baskets, down if you're baking in pans. After the preshape, I rest them seams down and covered before the final shape.
what kind of flour you use for dusting - I use all purpose flour for all of my breads (and bannetons) and croissant dough, and cake flour for puff pastry.
two-handed roll making -My right hand is my weak link, so sometimes I need to fix them with the left hand.
plastic versus the wood bannetons. What is your take - I only have plastic bannetons, and they work for me, so I can't comment on the wood ones. I haven't had problems with sticking that a little jiggle can't fix.
"double clutch" - It just sort of developed as I hand kneaded larger doughs. As you may have noticed in the PSB video, I shape the dough into a boule after the kneading and before it goes to the first rest. I find it's easier to shape large pieces of dough than small pieces (rolls).
so laid back - My neighbor once asked me, "How do you make your breads and pastries so perfect and consistent looking?" My reply was, "The ones that aren't perfect I throw off the deck and they're halfway between your house and mine..." He laughed and I said, "I'm serious."
Thanks again everyone- Mark
If you were too jovial you'd look like an idiot, and not serious about your work. Yes, bread making is fun, but the teacher in class isn't there to entertain and make jokes. You do a very good job, and we are learning a lot. Thank you both for the time you have put in it.
You're very welcome. Thought you might like this web page from the Christmas of 2000 when I was a teacher in Hawaii making gingerbread houses with 'my kids'.
It looks like you guys had a lot of fun making gingerbread houses.
HAWAII and still playing in dough! Some guys have all the luck! But seriously, it looked like you guy's were having a blast. I've done 2 gingerbread houses with my kids and it's one of the fun-est holiday projects we've done. One was a house, the next year was a barn. I had plans sketched out for a train, then my mind shifted to a Halloween haunted gingerbread (we really dig Halloween at our house) but then along came Quaid who is now in the terrible 2's, previously in the terrible 1's, and I postponed it a year. I want it to be fun, and he creates chaos! You must have a way with children. You looked in control, they were having fun, and you didn't look stressed. That is a gift. I envy you that . I get way too stressed. You'll go far with your bakery!
The only reason I asked about the seams was that it looked like you were putting them seam side down into the basket and I was surprised (my eyesight is not the greatest - I'm sure that it's clear to everyone else...).
Just saw your last video Mark. I see you have figured out the voice over, very nice. You guys are producing some very professional looking bits.
Is that granite you have in the kitchen?
Thanks for the compliments on the video.
Granite was our top choice, but our checkbooks couldn't handle the pricetag. Our countertops are 'off the shelf' Home Depot laminate made by VT Industries. Their colors change from time to time and they're not too difficult to put in by yourself. The whole package for our U shaped layout was around $500. Tightwad won out over 'dream kitchen' in this case. I made up for it by putting a cherry top above the backsplash for around $120 (that you can see in the videos) - I think it makes the countertops look nicer.
This is just what I needed to see. I'm learning a lot from watching it (again and again!)
Thank you Mark!
First, thanks for providing such a great, instructive video presentation on shaping loaves. Right now I'm sitting here eating a large helping of humble pie. Now I understand what you meant in your posting, regarding a clean work surface for shaping the loaves. Your technique is flawless. As they say in poker, I check to the power. Incidentally, there was absolutely NOTHING wrong with your voice. It was NOT monotone. Matter of fact, your video is as good or better than the ones I purchased from King Arthur Flour for $60.00 + or _. If you haven't done so, you might seriously think about putting a techniques video together and selling it. Good luck with the bakery.
After reading that you were "looking forward to seeing the shaping video", I was curious as to what you thought. Yes, it's the zoning and board of health dept. application that is dragging on, but fortunately my wife is very patient and also 'bringing home the bacon' right now. Anyway, glad you liked it. More to come.
By the way, my technique I owe 100% to the folks I used to work with at a bakery back in Vermont. When I started, I had never made a loaf of bread before, but from watching them and a lot of practice, I could copy their methods.
Were the plastic proofing bowls actually intended as bannetons, or were they plastic bowls that just happened to be perfect for that purpose?
Those are plastic bannetons made by Emil Schmidt of Germany.
I also took notice of the plastic bannetons you were using in your shaping video. The plastic bannetons seem like an excellent alternative to the unlined willow ones that I am now using; less expensive, durable, easier to clean, etc. Is there a U.S. source for the plastic bannetons? I "Googled" Emil Schmidt of Germany but struck out... along with limiting my search to "bannetons" and found only willow ones.
The company that I ordered from is: http://www.empirebake.net/scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=17
However, I just called them last week to order some oval ones, and they said that they were discontinuing carrying them due to the devaluing of the dollar versus the euro.
I'm thinking of ordering from this company:
as their prices look as cheap as I've found for wood and plastic bannetons. It also looks like the same brand that I have. Any chance you'd want to split the bulk order if I do? I'm going to call them up to find out a little more about the products, then if everything's kosher, order some of the smaller rectangular and some small rounds. If anyone else is interested, they have liners also for the wood bannetons and their prices are significantly cheaper than other places online...
Mark,Are you using a small basket for your 1.5 lb breads? The 19cm I think is for a 1 lb and the 22cm is for 1.5-2#. I could be wrong about this however. I would be down for a couple of both shapes if you need to fill out the order. Let me know.
Thanks for your reply and the info. on the plastic bannetons. Here's my problem, I don't need a huge number of bannetons, maybe a half dozen (2 lg. & 2 med. round ones and a couple of medium oval/square ones. The other problem is I am in St. Augustine, FL and you're in Montana (I think) and the souce is somewhere in between. Anyway, I looked at the site and they look very good and the price is certainly right. If you have any suggestions on how to do this thing let me know. I won't be upset if you decide it won't work.
Re: Your business endeavor, I know first hand about the "process"; Planning and Zoning, Inspections and Permits, City Commission hearings, City Council meetings, etc. Been there, done that and it's no fun at all. On a par with getting a monthly root canal...without the novocaine. Hope you get your approvals soon. My suggestion, for what it's worth, is to send over a large box of pain au chocolat and croissants, weekly, to the staff at the Health Permits and Inspection Dept. Sometimes the wheels of the bureaucracy need a little greasing, so to speak (smile).
Sorry it took a while to respond. Anyways, if you're up to it and it makes sense, I could order some, have them shipped here, then I could ship them out to you guys. I could look into the pricing of it all, then we can make the decision. If they fit into a flat rate box for the USPS, then it would be 8.95 for however many get shipped to you. If not, then I'll check the weight and measurements and let you know.
If you are up to it, let me know what you'd be interested in, and I'll get some figures back to you.
Eric- I use the small ones (listed for 1# loaves) for my 1.5# loaves.
Mark,I could use a couple of each size you get. You should decide how many you need first and then Howard and I can make up the difference to the even case. Maybe this would be best done off the forum.
I'll wait a bit to see if Howard responds, then communicate with you via email.
Good Morning Mark,
Thanks for your post. I'm still on-board for ordering the bannetons if you're willing to do it. The flat rate shipping sounds fine to me. Just let me know the cost. Here's my wish list, if possible, (if not, I'll take whatever sizes you can get). I would like to have:
4 ea. of the: small rounds (1-1.5#)
2 ea. of the 3-4# round size
Same number and size ovals (or square), whichever you can get, for a total of 12 bannetons. Let me know the cost and where to send the payment.
Incidentally, after watching your "Rounding/Shaping" video clip (a few times) I made boules and rolls using your technique and you certainly have a convert here. I used the K.A. recipe for Rustic Bread that K.A. included with a video I purchased a while back and made 2 batches of dough. I used one batch to make two boules, using your technique, and with the other batch I made 11 ea. 3.5 oz. rolls and they came out perfect, at least by my standards. Thank you so much for sharing your video. I will post some pics later this week so you can see what I did.
I'm glad to hear that the technique is working for you. I'd love to see the pictures.
I'll look into the costs tomorrow and let you know for the bannetons. If you have an email address, I can send you the info there if you prefer. I've had a couple of requests for videos on 'looser dough', so I'm going to try to put a short one up later this week on ciabatta. Don't know if you're into that type of bread, but it might be interesting anyway. I'll put a little bit on using a canvas and a little on the baking part this time.
Thanks for your posting. Looking forward to the next videos. I am "into" ciabatta. It's my wife's favorite bread. She's not a huge fan of whole grain breads, although she does enjoy whole wheat. I make ciabatta a few times a month using Rose Levy's recipe and have had good results but would really like to see the way you do it. I am interested to see how you use the canvas and get the loaves from canvas to oven intact. My wife sews and she made me a canvas couche 6 feet long. She did a great job and I used it last week for some batards. They stuck to the canvas in a couple of spots but she helped me get them loose and into the oven without deflating them. My problem was probably "operator trouble", not enough flour on the canvas. Sometimes this hobby seems like a trapeze act without a net, but I love it. Even the failures teach me something. I'll be posting some pics of the boules and rolls in the next few days. Like I said using your technique I was thrilled with the results, considering that I have had spotty results with rolls in the past. I used KA bread flour on this batch but next time I'm going to use some KA French style flour (have a couple of 3 lb. bags left in the freezer), which has lower protein and may give me a better interior with larger holes using the folding technique. I'll wait to hear from you on the bannetons. Also checked out your web site and you have a very nice site.
My e-mail address is email@example.com
Here are a few links for plastic proofing baskets:
Mark, your videos are just great!!! Thank you for sharing.
Susan from San Diego
Thanks for jposting the links for the plastic bannetons. Much appreciated.
The San Fransisco Baking Institute carries a limited selection of plastic bannetons, very cheap. Check them out online,
How long do you wait between the preshaping and the final shaping?
10 to 15 minutes, or so. The idea is to give the gluten time to "relax" for easier final shaping.
I love your video, thanks! Have you done a video on braiding by chance?
smasty,Glad you like the video. I haven't done a braiding video, but Elizabeth (ejm) has here.
Thanks for the video I am still learning how to do the shaping and this definitely teaches me a lot. I love baking my bread in my WFO so shaping it better will definitely help.
Nice looking bread on your blog. Check out this other video of mine for more on shaping.