The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

kneading and folding re edit - video

mcs's picture
mcs

kneading and folding re edit - video

Hey there everyone,

This is the *new and improved* version of the kneading and folding video I posted a couple of days ago. As per some of your suggestions, I addressed the volume levels, intro commentary and video angles. I like it a lot better, and I hope you do to. In addition, I used Hamelman's multigrain dough this time, instead of whole wheat. (Floyd, could you put this video on the first thread also instead of the first video? I removed the first one already from YouTube- thanks in advance). Next video will be on shaping.

-Mark


http://youtube.com/watch?v=qVewUbE2YOM

FMM's picture
FMM

I really liked it Mark, even the Beastie Boys music.  The difference between the first and second risings was quite apparent and helpful to see.  I love that you rise your dough in what appears to be a stock pot!  I look forward to seeing the shaping video.

 Fiona

mcs's picture
mcs

even the Beastie Boys music - sounds to me like 'in spite of the Beastie Boys music'. Just kidding. Sort of. Yup, that's a 12 qt. Paul Revere stock pot. I'm glad you liked the video. Although you can't tell in the 2nd fold, I degassed it before I folded and it still had that much volume. Cool, huh? Thanks again.

-Mark

http://thebackhomebakery.com

ehanner's picture
ehanner

You certainly make the case that you don't need a stand mixer to create great bread at home. There is a very natural feel to your video Mark, I liked this one a lot.

Eric

mcs's picture
mcs

I added the intro commentary as was suggested by you on the previous video version. When I read your suggestion, I realized that I also like to know what's going on at the beginning of a video/book/movie, or whatever. After a couple of burned out KitchenAids and being disappointed with our Magic Mill DLX about 15 years ago, I said, "Screw it, I'll do it by hand." That's the edited version. Of course there are three stand mixers just out of camera view...

-Mark

http://thebackhomebakery.com

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Mark,
I noticed that you don't stretch as much as I do in the S&F. I usually lift and stretch to get the maximum development before I fold. The down side of this is that the dough pulls together in the middle and the shape is no longer "square". You are showing me I have been needlessly over doing it.

Funny you should mention the DLX. I'm expecting my new DLX in todays UPS truck. 

When do you hope to be open in Kalispell?

Eric 

mcs's picture
mcs

If your method of folding has been working for you , then I might stick with it. At the bakery I used to work at in Vermont a while back, we never folded anything and the 'artisan' breads came out great. In fact, until I read Hamelman's book about 6 months ago, I never even heard of folding or preshaping; but it made a lot of sense and it can 'fix' your mistakes from mixing. The dough at the bakery went straight from the mixer to a dough bin, covered to proof, then weighed out and shaped.

As you can see with my mixing/kneading, I don't add (hardly) any flour to the dough after the ingredients are initially added. Not during the kneading, not during the folding or shaping. Therefore my dough looks dry to begin with, but evens out; other people's starts out wet, then flour is added during the other processes - probably ending up with a similar final product and weight. The DLX didn't jive with my style; but I think if you're from the other school of thought (with a wetter initial mix), it would work.

About 2 months until the bakery is legal, until then, we are the 'BlackMarketBakery' instead of the 'BackHomeBakery'.

-Mark

http://thebackhomebakery.com

ehanner's picture
ehanner

It's nice to see you knowing how much water to add to the flour or vice versa, so you can mix and knead right off on the counter. Your way is more efficient and reliable I'm sure. That's one of the things that comes from producing the same breads every day and knowing how things should look and feel.

Kalispell is a cool spot. I used to come there 2-3 times a year for hunting or fishing trips and really enjoyed Glacier and fly fishing. Managed to wreck a few rental cars up there:>)

Good luck with the bidness. BTW those aren't your retail prices on the site are they? Seems low even for MT. Your stuff is 1st class.

Eric 

syllymom's picture
syllymom

Have to say you make baking bread cool.  :)

The volume is much better and I do appreciate here more of what you are doing.  The angle shots help to see what is happening overall.  Great job!

Congrates on soon to be legal.  I'm curious to know what the main steps in becoming a barkery are.

mcs's picture
mcs

Thanks for the compliments, and for the coolness rating. I know it varies from state to state, but basically the first step here is to contact the department of health and zoning department to see if the location you desire for the bakery is a possibility. If you're just interested in farmer's markets and that type of thing, they are not under the same category here, so the regulations on those are quite loose.

-Mark

http://thebackhomebakery.com

Floydm's picture
Floydm

I just tweaked the HTML filtering so you should be able to copy and paste the embed code in yourself, if you want to. You just have to toggle the rich-text editor off before pasting.

I also went back and updated your previous video. Sorry I didn't notice your post for a day or two... been busy.

mcs's picture
mcs

You mean you have other things to do? How could you?! Just kidding and thanks. I've got one more for you in a thread that I'm just about to start.

-Mark

By the way, it may seem like I understand computer stuff because I can use imovie, but I don't know what the he#% you're talking about with the 'rich text editor' stuff...But I do know how to shape rolls...

http://thebackhomebakery.com

Floydm's picture
Floydm

Ha ha... It's all good. I was online last night watching Super Tuesday results come in, so it was no big deal.

I embedded your other video too. Keep 'em coming.

I dig the B Boys instrumental soundtrack... Keyboard Money Mark is one of my heros, though I think this dude may be catching up.

ejm's picture
ejm

This is excellent now. I really like the new sound levels, Mark. It's such a relief not to feel like I have to change the levels depending on whether there is music or dialogue.

 

It's particularly interesting to see you mixing your dough in the stock pot and how much flour you throw down to knead into the bread. I just skimmed your recipe and don't see whether you add extra flour to the bench or whether you hold back some of the flour from the recipe and use it in the kneading.

 

-Elizabeth 

Thegreenbaker's picture
Thegreenbaker

ejm,

I wondered that too, but on closer inspection, it seems that Mark mixes as far as he can with the spoon, then dumps the lot, dough, unmixed flour and all onto the bench and kneads it in.

It looks as though he doesnt add any extra flour, just seems to know how much of each to put in with out needing to adjust often. 

 

Well thats from what I gather. :) I may be totally wrong!

 

 

mcs's picture
mcs

The flour you see on the countertop, is just unmixed from the stock pot. As thegreenbaker said, it's part of the recipe, and once it comes together slightly, I figure I can mix/knead it faster on the countertop instead of with a spoon in a pot. If I find it's too sticky, I weigh how much flour I add (to the gram) then change the recipe. So in short, I don't add any additional flour on any steps (except in the bannetons). I've tweaked the multigrain recipe enough, so it probably won't change anymore.

-Mark

http://thebackhomebakery.com

ejm's picture
ejm

Aha. Thank you for the clarification. (I should have done as greenbaker did and looked again at the video.)

 

That's exactly what I do when making pizza dough or pita, Mark. But for some reason, when I make bread, I generally hold back around 1/2 cup of flour and use only what is necessary for kneading. (We do have a tremendous fluctuation in air humidity from month to month.)  And because I'm just home baking rather than running a bakery the way you are, it doesn't matter if I use a little less or a little more flour in a particular recipe.

 

-Elizabeth 

Rosalie's picture
Rosalie

Mark, the video is great, and I'm going to check out your web site next.

You say to knead for a while, then rest, then fold, later fold again....  For how long do you knead?  How long is your first rest, and then your inter-fold rests?  I don't know how much whole grain is in that particular dough, but I'm particularly interested in specs for 100% whole grain doughs.

Rosalie

mcs's picture
mcs

a while...a little bit...some more... You get it. I'm just winging it.

No actually, as you probably found out on the website, I've got all of the times and measurements, so I didn't put them in the video. The mixing times listed are for a machine mixer, but my times end up being pretty close. If your kneading is slower, then maybe 10 minutes is good. It's a 50/50 dough (half white), but I know Laurel's book has full whole grain recipes. You could try this recipe out as a full whole grain, then let me know how it works?

-Mark

http://thebackhomebakery.com

 

 

ejm's picture
ejm

I have made the basic 100% whole wheat from Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book - A Guide to Whole-Grain Breadmaking by Laurel Robertson (that is the book you're talking about?) It worked out very well - I mix and knead by hand. Here is my take on it:

http://etherwork.net/recipes/wholewheat.html#wholewheat

 > a while...a little bit...some more...

Augh!! This sounds like my mother when I used to ask her how much flour to put into baking powder biscuits.

"Oh some"
"How much is 'some'?"
"Oh you know... enough"
:-D 

 

 

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

I like that so much better ! You vids are always so helpful and well done (kudos to Mrs. Mark!), but having your comments and the backgroud music makes everyone feel like we're sitting at the counter watching. Nice touch, glad you brought it back.


So when does your"Know to When Fold'em" 5 DVD set come out?