October 25, 2018 - 1:10pm
Sourdough loaf crumb help
First time poster long time stalker, I'm challenging myself to make at least 2 loafs of sourdough a week and just finished my first one. I never tried this recipe before so I'm not sure how far off I am, but I feel like my crumb is off. The uneven and few large holes doesn't seem right, it tastes alright but I think it's a little dense where the holes are small.
If anyone could take a look and give me some advice for my next go I'd love to hear what you think!
https://www.ilovecooking.ie/features/sourdough-bread-masterclass-with-patrick-ryan/
That's the recipe I attempted, I might try a wetter dough next time. I'll also note that I used my own starter not the one in recipe (I already had mine)
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hydration but I don't think adding more water will improve the crumb right now. I do think letting the dough bulk ferment longer would help as it looks underproofed with classic large holes and very tiny dense crumb bubbles surrounding them. Also the salt is about 1% of the dough flour amount. How did it taste?
I don't like the recipe as there is no temperature suggestion other than the vague "room temp." Most likely your room temps are cooler and so the times will vary. Four hours is obviously not enough time.
Thank you!
I plan to add more salt this time around
I'll try longer proof also, I appreciate the advice and look forward to updating soon!
This looks like classic under-bulk fermented (as opposed to under-proofed). So it's important to look at your process to ensure that, for instance:
-The starter is refreshed and active when you use it to build levain.
-The levain has had sufficient time to ferment prior to inoculating the dough.
-The dough is in the 70 F range after mixing (using warm water in the mix if necessary to reach that range).
-You are fermenting at a high enough temperature to get robust activity, i.e., 70-80 F (many of us have a proofing box of some sort; I love the Brod & Taylor, https://brodandtaylor.com/folding-proofer-and-slow-cooker/).
-Your dough is visibly active and expanded when you decide to shape it. It should look 'proofy" as Trevor Wilson would say.
Sometimes i tend to call every fermentation a proof, the final proof being the last one. Not enough fermentation looks like the problem.
I did the same until Dave Snyder recently pointed out there is a difference and I realized I didn't know the difference between under-bulk and under-final proofing.
Under fermented and needed more time in the bulk ferment stage. If you stuck to the timing and the temperature was in a good range, even though one should always watch the dough and not the clock, then I'd take a closer look at your starter because while everyone's starter is different this is way off.
So identifying what threw the recipe off would be a good start. How old is your starter? How warm was the ferment? Have you made any successful loaves with your starter? Was anything off such as temps or timing?
I just got this starter after losing my old one months ago.
I've fed it twice so far (it was at least a week old when I got it but I don't know when they made it, fairly recent though) and it did double in size before I used it. It took a longer than I remember it used to but there's movement up the container for sure.
I going to make another loaf with the same starter (I just put it back in fridge after making this loaf without feeding it) and feed it after I take what I need tonight to make the dough for attempt #2
Thanks everyone for such fast and helpful replies
I keep mine in the fridge. When I go to bake I like to do 2-4 mini-feeds at 1-2-2 a couple days before baking to make sure it's really active.
I've been feeding it 1-1-1 (left over starter/breadflour/water), is there benefit to 1-2-2? I'll try it for tonight's feed (I want a little extra anyway!)
Try this recipe. A better recipe imo with clear instructions. They call it a poolish but in reality it's a levain. It has a good feed and when mature it should be active and strong. The levain is higher percentage too which should help with under fermenting issues.
Yes, 1-1-1 is adequate when building a starter, but after it is established, it needs more food in order to build a more concentrated colony. The more food, the more the beasties can propagate. 1-2-2 is standard, and 1-3-3 is also common, or 1-2-3 is going for a stiffer starter.
recently, I would feed it and let it peak before removing some for a recipe. Then feed the remaining and let it show signs of life before sticking it into the fridge as the new improved mother starter. Use the older one as a backup shoving it towards the back of the fridge fails the newly fed starter doesn't rise to the occasion
Thank you all for all the great help! SOOOOO much happier with this one. Any and all criticism is welcome
I would also steal it if I found it cooling on a window sill. Nice loaf!!!
Lovely indeed! Which recipe did you try in the end?
What a huge difference. I'd be well pleased with that.
I used the same recipe in my first post, but I doubled the salt the second time around. I will be playing around with different flours and milling my own soon!
It was night and day after I fed the starter more and gave it enough time. I just got off work and I'm going to bake the second one I made from the same batch now and looking forward to see if I can tell the difference from the fridge (today) vs room temperature (one I pictured and nearly ate the whole thing)
What an improvement...
Yes, that is quite an improvement. That initial picture reminds me of some of my first sourdough dutch oven loaves...
Except for some summer doldrums, I've been baking one or two loaves a week for the past year, and I am still struggling to understand the difference between (and the relative importance of) the bulk ferment and the proofing, as opposed to one monolithic start-to-finish fermentation. I read through all of FWSY and Forkish didn't really give me a clue (he says something like, "both are important". Gee, thanks). I do have Hamelman but I haven't started it yet. I also have BBA but I bogged down reading about fava bean flour and ascorbic acid...
One of the man purposes of bulk fermentation is to build flavor in the dough and the final proof of the shaped dough is primarily to attain volume.
If you only did a single fermentation, it would have to be done after shaping or else the shaping would deflate the formerly fermented dough.
Generally, the bulk fermentation last longer than the final proof.
Dan
Lately, my schedule has been:
0. feed starter ten hours before
1. mix (15 minutes)
2. autolyze (30 minutes, with salt scattered on top 20 minutes in)
3. double set of stretch and folds in the bowl (15 minutes)
4. pop it in the refrigerator and leave it there for 36-60 hours
etc.
But I'm thinking now (especially with cooler temperatures) that I should let the dough rest and begin to ferment at room temperature for an hour before putting it in the refrigerator. Or is the time in the refrigerator sufficient?