The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

A Community Bake & Italian Beer

Abe's picture
Abe

A Community Bake & Italian Beer

Thank you to Dan for the wonderful idea of this community bake and Maurizio, from the perfect loaf, for the recipe here is my second attempt. Instead of 78% hydration (proceeded cautiously the first time) this is the original 86.4% hydration (I don't believe the malt is counted when calculating hydration in the original recipe, which places it at 87%, but it's flour so why not?) and with Birra Moretti Lager in place of the water. 

The Levain Build:

  • 17g starter (whole rye @ 70% hydration)
  • 15g whole wheat flour
  • 15g bread flour
  • 33g water

Dough Formula:

  • 220g whole wheat flour
  • 220g bread flour
  • 380g Birra Moretti (330g for autolyse + 50g final dough)
  • 5g whole rye flour (instead of malt and added to make things balance)
  • 10g salt
  • 62g levain

This is the highest hydration dough I've done to date. Decided on slap and folds and it worked a treat. The gluten was strong and the dough behaved so well. Added in the stretch and folds for good measure but really didn't need it. The recipe suggests to pre-shape with no flour. This was a surprise to me as I've always needed to use flour to prevent the dough from sticking. However not this time. Did a gentle letter fold one way and then the other, inside the bowl, and the dough released from the bowl immediately when turned out onto the bench. I've had more issues with lower hydration in the past. Tightened it up into a round and let it bench rest for 20 minutes. Held it shape very well. Lightly floured the top and inverted the dough. Shaped into a batard, placed in the banneton then into the fridge for 12 hours. 

Fully expecting the dough to spread out like a pancake, as with other really high hydration doughs in the past, this one held its shape and had great oven spring. Freestanding on a wire rack with tin foil as a base to-boot. 

Very happy with this recipe. Feel with slap and folds I can handle hydration that until now has been out of my depth.

 

 

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

What a lovely crust and shape; can't wait to see the inside! I'm wondering if that beer has live yeast in it? If so, I'm sure that helped with the spring as well as the flavour.

Abe's picture
Abe

I added it for flavour as the recipe does include malt so I thought using beer would be a good idea. Didn't think about if the yeasts were live or not. Just had a look at their website and it appears it has no live yeasts in it. When there are live yeasts in beer it continues to ferment in the bottle and it foams up when opened. This one didn't. I'm also under the impression that even when beer is live the yeasts aren't strong enough alone and would need a preferment to make them more active before using in a dough. This beer is refreshing and crisp. Wonder if it's had any impact on the flavour...

Slap and folds rule :) 

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

That is a great looking loaf. I have recently become fond of Slap & Folds. Partly because it works, and mostly because it is so much fun :-))

Tell me this. I don’t care for the taste of beer. Does the bread have a strong beer taste?

I can’t wait to see what you’ll come up with next...

Dan

Abe's picture
Abe

Are so effective Dan. Never lets me down so I'm beginning to enjoy them. Have shunned them until now as I'm a bit of a clean freak. But I think weighing up the pros and cons the pros outway the cons. Thanks to you and your community bake I have managed the highest hydration to date. 

This was a lovely crisp clean tasting beer. I'm sure it's imparted a nice flavour. We will soon see. 

Abe's picture
Abe

A lovely surprise. Really like the flavour imparted by the beer/lager. The while the crumb is malty with a pleasant tang the crust has intense flavour. Certainly has that beer taste that lingers on. 

Ru007's picture
Ru007

Beer instead of water, how cool! Can you taste the beer in the final bread, or does it kind of mingle with the other flavours?

Love the crumb on the this one too. Its looks so nice and airy. 

Really nice bake :)

Happy baking Abe

Ru

Abe's picture
Abe

Beer taste is prominent. A long lingering after taste. No searching for flavour in this loaf. Very happy all round.

I think the tang of a sourdough has been replaced by a more hop-y flavour.

Had a piece 10 minutes ago and can still taste it. 

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

But first - wow, that crumb is amazing! I bet you'll be baking this one again. :)

Here is an interesting bit about yeast in beer > https://www.quora.com/After-fermentation-of-beer-what-happens-to-yeast

Abe's picture
Abe

Definitely! Perhaps the same recipe and trying different beers or even cider. 

Thanks for that. In the website for the beer I used it says it's filtered out. But we'll see what quora has to say on how to use live beer for baking.

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

I often use my husband's home made beer in my bread, either in the poolish or in the dough. It's not filtered. Those breads always turn out lovely!

Abe's picture
Abe

Well you're gonna have access to the unfiltered live yeasts and you can make barm bread. That's a method which is as arguably as old as sourdough. That's gotta taste amazing and nice to have some on tap - literally. If I lived closer I'd be round for some barm :) Bottled beer is a bit different though. 

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

I did make real barm bread a while back, Abe. It turned out very nice! Check out the post here. I've also used the trub off the bottom of the primary but it didn't turn out so nice.

Abe's picture
Abe

Is the barm. Just checked it out. Lovely, Wendy. 

I was surprised at how active the barm is. I think when beer is live it definitely isn't as active as that. 

Do have questions about barm bread though as beer at one time must've also been naturally fermented so did barm bread back then bangs the same as today? 

mutantspace's picture
mutantspace

barm breads are fantastic - would have started out life with medieval bakers and the local breweries coming to an accommodation  - interstingly the word 'barm' (which is the frothy part at thew top of the beer ) is where we get the word 'barmy' from meaning frothy, excitable and a bit mad. i use barm from a local brewery but some craft breweries have bottle conditioned beer  - look for it on the label. Dan Lepard has a great recipe that @shiao-ping made and i followed with @ http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/12978/dan-lepard039s-barm-bread-100-sourdough 

Abe's picture
Abe

Looks like a very interesting recipe. The "barm" in it is a recreation with beer and sourdough starter but It does look very good and I'd like to try it.

Want to find a local brewery where I can get some barm. I've the conditioned beer and I think a polish would need to be made first giving it some time to activate and build strength before using.

mutantspace's picture
mutantspace

heres an interesting artical on it and another recipe which i used - involves making poolish as you suggested @ https://breadcakesandale.wordpress.com/2013/09/17/real-beer-barm-bread/

im lucky in that Ireland has alot of local craft breweries many of whom are young and see the relationship between bread and beer and hence are more than willing to pass on their frothy and excitable excesses

not.a.crumb.left's picture
not.a.crumb.left

and great idea with the beer. Before I started making my own bread I bought an 'Adnams Sourdough' bread from a local bakery using beer from Adnams in Southwold......I will not tell my husband as he otherwise gets ideas what I need to put in the bread! ha, ha.....Kat

 

Abe's picture
Abe

Does the lacy effect come from the slap and folds? 

I've heard of Adnams... Now there's another possibility and it does have your hubby's stamp of approval.

Thank you Kat.

not.a.crumb.left's picture
not.a.crumb.left

more contributing towards the gluten development during mixing and that the lacy effect should be from folds during bulk fermentation and creating structure or pre-shape...but what do I know...I am going through a bit of a be-fuddled brain phase at the moment with the heat wave.....:D Kat

 

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Abe, the crumb and also the cross section shape of the bread is gorgeous. IMO, the lacy uniform crumb is beautiful. The overall bake looks great!

An

Abe's picture
Abe

Thoroughly enjoyed this community bake (apologies for not posting it on the community bake page - I should have done!)

Looking forward to the next one. 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

% is a but more than 50% too :-)  Lucy said would like to see the crust on this one with the crumb being so perfect!  From the cross section, it looks fully proofed which produces a cross section like this one for scored breads.  I'm guessing the bloom was a bit restricted but so what? In my book, bloom is as over rated for bread snobs like Lucy like holes anyway.  Plus you can't taste bloom at all either, just like like holes.  Damn bread snobs anyway.  I'm putting Lucy in teh Kennel just of suggesting it;-)

Nice baking for sure and we all know how great it tastes too!    Just lovely and what a treat this community bake keeps giving ......which I still haven't done yet but this Friday is The Day for it.

Happy baking Abe

 

 

Abe's picture
Abe

I like the way you can analyse a bread so well from the crumb shot. It's like detective work from the likes of Sherlock. 

When you say fully proofed do you mean proofed to the ideal amount or doubled? I have decided to go for one shot when it comes to photos as this way the picture cannot go anywhere when attached to the header of the post. It's downloaded and there it'll stay. With other photos in the body of the post they aren't permanent if anything happens to them on my profile or computer. But you are correct! My biggest issue is utilising my oven for the best possible bake. While I've overcome some issues it's not perfect yet. For now this is my best way for a free standing bake. 

Looking forward to your bake. They are fun! 

leslieruf's picture
leslieruf

It is just such a great recipe and I love your interpretation of it.  I am not a beer drinker so haven’t ever tried to use it in bread. maybe next summer.

Slap and folds have proved to be an absolute winner for me - my 80% hydration white loaf developed great strength this way, I would never have tried this hydration otherwise! Like you I found the strength developed in this recipe meant it was no problem at all shaping the dough.  and to finally to be able to handle dough without it sticking to everything, well it is just incredible. I think too, that as dabrownman said, it is fine at the start, then just very gentle handling afterwards. 

very well done Abe!

Leslie

Abe's picture
Abe

Knowing I have a way to handle high hydration loaves is like a weight off my shoulder. No longer am I limited. Nor do I have to spend a while adjusting recipe. Just slap, fold and go :)

Wanted to post this on our community bake page so instead of making a whole new post I updated my last make shift post which had a photo with little explanation. Only realised after I had done it that all your comments don't quite fit the post. Silly me! So did a p.s. with an explanation. 

I just used beer to give it that malt flavour. You can use a cider if you prefer. 

So it's slap and folds first then gentle handling later. Might have I seen done the stretch and folds but was playing it safe for the high hydration. I needn't have. Thanks for the advice and kind words Leslie.

leslieruf's picture
leslieruf

Danni’s latest post has me wanting to add cider, so maybe.....

it is exciting to get the feeling that, yes, now I can try a high hydration dough so next bake will try a maybe 82% white and see how I go.  Still a bit wary but...  I liked the very gentle two handed coiling in the bowl (both trevor and maurizio do this too) rather than traditional stretch and fold and you can just leave dough in bowl until the last one.  always , always something to learn.. my bread has definitely improved lately.😊

bake happy Abe

Leslie

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Leslie, have you found that resting in between slap and fold session make a profound difference. I think I first got the idea from Alan or Dab.

Slap and fold for a while then rest the dough 5 minutes. After the rest the dough takes on an entirely different look and feel. Are you doing this?

Dan

leslieruf's picture
leslieruf

but yes, I believe Alphanso does.  Dabrownman does several rests with a smaller no of slap and folds if I remember correctly.  I am just sold on the slap and folds so will try a break next time.  I still have heaps of bread to get through so it may be next week before I bake again, sad really as I am itching to try again!