The Fresh Loaf

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some questions as to why dough is still sticky after kneading for an hour.

breadman's picture
breadman

some questions as to why dough is still sticky after kneading for an hour.

so before I explain everything here are some details.

bread that i'm making :sweet buns/Melon pan
video tutorial that i'm following: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFUWTH-CXk8
Bread Dough's recipe:
225 g (1 ¾ cup) bread flour
25 g (scant ¼ cup) cake flour
3 g (1 tsp.) kosher salt
40 g (3 Tbsp.) granulated sugar
4 g (1 ¼ tsp.) instant dry yeast
1 large egg (46-50 g/ml), beaten
50 ml (3 ½ Tbsp.) whole milk, keep at 86F (30C)
50 ml (3 ½ Tbsp.) water, keep at 86F (30C)
35 g (2 ½ Tbsp.) unsalted butter, cut into small cubes and at room temp

so i'm a little confused...now i'm still a beginner and still learning....anyway
when I first try this recipe, the kneading process of the bread dough went smoothly, it only took me 10-12 mins of kneading (the kneading technique that i did is the one shown on the video) and the dough was smooth, elastic and not sticky...

but this time on my second attempt, even tho i've been kneading for 50 mins already and followed the same recipe/process that I did last time like in the video, the dough is still sticky and not getting smooth, elastic nor not sticky.
now after baking it, it still went well, the taste was good and the dough wasnt hollow or anything...although i'm still confused as to why the dough didnt become elastics and smooth like last time after kneading for a couple minutes...

* I would also like to add that the environment/kitchen that i'm working on is really cold (16-18°C)
* I cant remember if the dough on my first attempt was warm or not...tho i'm not sure if this contributes to a smooth, elastic non sticky dough..
so just wanna ask, what are the factors that contribute to a dough thats still sticky after kneading for an hour?
is a cold environment contributes to it as well?
if yes, what solution should I do?
(PS I also tried adding 1/2 tbsp of flour and I didnt wanna add more as it might become too stiff)

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

One can expect a dough to not behave in exactly the same manner. Depending on humidity and other factors a dough might feel different. However while this explains slight fluctuations it's a mystery why your dough is indeed completely different. So using Occam's razor theory...

1. You're using different flours.

2. You've gotten the flours mixed up.

3. You've measured something incorrectly.

breadman's picture
breadman

well I used all purpose flour instead of bread flour both on my first and second attempt for the bread dough.....the first one did great...dont know why the second one didnt lol

as for the measurement, I used a foodscale to get the right measurement....

hmmm...i'll try again next time, this time i'll make my own small adjustments and see what happens...

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Or a different brand?

Which flour did you use both times?

And is it possible you might have swapped the cake and AP flour around?

breadman's picture
breadman

wait does 'brand' matter?

and also no, I make sure I use the correct ingredient ....I used all purpose flour and cake flour

anyway...I just remember something... I might've added more liquid that it should be.... prob 10 ml more both for milk and water? so that would've added 20ml more liquid......I probably just didnt see the final measurement on the scale or something....considering this, it makes sense now lol

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Well it depends on the protein percentage. One brand might put the protein percentage for an AP flour at 12.6% and another at 11%. Not a huge difference but when mixing with cake flour etc.

In this recipe it calls for bread flour and cake flour, albeit not that much, which will sort of give you an AP flour. You're using AP flour and cake flour which will further lower the protein percentage.

I'd use bread flour 12.6% + protein and cake flour.

Or... Use all AP flour.

That and measuring carefully :)

breadman's picture
breadman

oooooohhh.....now the protein is what gives the dough structure right?(not sure if i'm correct lol)

what happens if the protein is lower vs higher?

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Yes. Stronger protein for bread and weaker protein for cake. AP flour is in-between and can lend itself to either.

Higher protein flour will be able to absorb more water.

I think the cake flour in the recipe is added to the flour to lower the protein a tad. This will make the crumb a bit softer. It's not a lot at around 10% but it will effect that crumb.

AP flour is already lower in protein than bread flour and on top of that there's cake flour. It might just be a bit over done.

  • Cake Flour : 10% <
  • AP Flour : 11-12%
  • Bread flour 12% +
breadman's picture
breadman

I see....thank you very much for this... :)

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Hope this helps.

breadman's picture
breadman

so its all right to just use AP flour without the need of cake flour?

i'll just basically turn the 25g of cake flour into AP as well? would that still produce a soft bread?
(cause I've always assume that cake flour is added in order for the bread to be soft)

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Cake flour is added to bread flour to create something closer to AP flour for a softer bread.

If you're using AP flour anyway then just use all AP flour.

It's not very much cake flour but then again it might be too much if your AP flour isn't that strong anyway.

dtdayan's picture
dtdayan

For a very small amount of ingredients,  a missed amount and quantity even by a few grams would affect the manageability of the dough or the moisture content of your flour has changed.

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Interesting recipe. I'm curious as to what it tastes like. Bread dough wrapped in a biscuit dough.

For the biscuit dough I'd use the cake flour.

breadman's picture
breadman

its actually tasty ...I dont like something that is too sweet or too much sugar(like cupcakes or brownies).....this one has a balance sweetness...just the way i like it lol....