The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Looking For Impressive Sourdough Recipe

knitfty's picture
knitfty

Looking For Impressive Sourdough Recipe

Hi, all!

 

For the last day of one of my college classes, we did a potluck. I whipped up a simple sourdough recipe that I found here https://www.homemadefoodjunkie.com/tartine-style-sourdough-bread-recipe/ and it turned out really well. But, because I had to cut corners with the time, it didn't taste nearly as tangy as I like my sourdough to be.

 

One of my classmates was enormously impressed with the bread, and has asked me to make some for her graduation party in a couple of weeks. I'd like to really knock her socks off this time. Do any of you have go-to sourdough recipes that you use when you want to impress somebody? I'd like the strongest flavor I can get. I don't have access to any special flours or anything: I'd like to keep the ingredients simple if possible.

 

Thanks!

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

A very popular SD bread is called 123 bread. Do a forum search for “123 bread”.

It is basically 1 part Levain (starter), 2 parts water, and 3 parts flour. So, a 600 gram bread would use 100g starter, 200g water, 300g flour, and 6g (2%) salt.

With sourdough, the flavor often comes from fermentation. The longer it ferments, the better and more complex the flavors.

Another bread comes to mind. Jeffrey Hamelman’s book, Bread has a formula called Five-Grain Levain. It has many seeds and is very popular amount many bakers.

HTH

Dan

love's picture
love

In my experience the #1 factor for more tangy sourdough is consistent warm temperature. 25 C, at a minimum, should be maintained through the entire dough process.  

There are other theories on this, but this is the only one that has ever worked for me. 

G. Marie's picture
G. Marie

Reinhart's San Francisco's Sourdough from Artisan Breads Every Day is the one I like. I tried Hamelman's Vermont Sourdough once and it wasn't as sour. Usually the "wild yeast starter" sits in my fridge for 1-2 days, the "dough" another 1-2 days and then wait a day to eat.

It's the one I always default back to because I love the taste and the schedule is so flexible.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

it has to have the base sour 'lactic acid' and the tang 'acetic acid'.  LAB have no problem producing the lactic acid since they are called Lactobacillus but it is the tang that is hard to get.  LAB have be made to produce acetic acid.  LAB also produce more acid if there is some whole grains in there say around 15% of the flour.  It take Higher and Lower temperatures to get a lot of both acids in the bread.

If you make a 1 2 3 style bread your hydration will be 71% but instead of using all white bread flour make the levain  portion (the 1) out of whole wheat flour.  Take 75 g of whole wheat and 75 G of water with 10 g of sourdough starter and let it ferment on the counter at a temperature of 88 F if you can until it doubles in size.  Then stir it down and put it in the fridge for 48 hours,  

When you take it out to warm up take 320 g of water and 480 g of bread flour and mix it together and sprinkle 11 g of salt on top, cover with plastic and let sit for 1 hour.

Mix the salt in and then add the levain that has been warming up.  Knead any way you want mixer, by hand, slap and folds, stretch and folds and then cover with a bowl on the counter for 40 minutes.  Then do 3 sets of stretch and folds from the compass points so 4 stretches each time all on 40 minute intervals.  The oil up a bowl, put the dough inside cover with plastic and refrigerate for 12 hours.  IF you can get the kitchen temperature up to 84 F great.  I have no problem with that in Arizona,

Let the dough warm up on the counter for 1 hour then pre-shape it and 10 minutes later final shape it and put it in rice floured basket seam side down to final proof for about 1.5 hours but what ever time it takes for it to increase in volume 90% but no more.  If you have a proofer that you can set for 88 F then do so.  Turn the basket over to un-mold the proofed dough onto parchment paper and then into a hot DO, spritz it with water liberally and then cover with the lid on or onto a 460 F stone with Mega Steam underneath

Bake it lid on or under steam in the oven at 460 F for 20 minutes and then lid off and or steam removed for about 16 minutes more at 425 F convection if you have it - till it it browned nicely and the internal temperature is between 208 F and 210 F then remove to a cooling rack.

This will give you the most sour and tasty SF style sourdough there is. 

Happy sourdough baking 

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

I baked your sourdough, Dab. I followed the instructions as closely as possible. Since I have a proofer I was able to maintain the temps instructed. The bread came out very nice and had a very open crumb. But unfortunately it wasn’t as sour as my usual SD bread.

Is it possible that my starter didn’t contain enough Lab. I feed mine twice daily @ 1:3:5 and kept @ 73F. I believe it greatly favors yeast. I do get a very smooth sour which I really like, when I use Teresa Greenway’s SFSD formula. It requires no refrigeration and total ferment times is 18 - 19 hours @ 77F. Sometimes I will retard her loaves. The flavor is slightly different when I do so.

Since a great deal of your fermentation is cold, I find your dough to be noticeably stronger after proof than Teresa’s. It is a fine line when fermenting the dough @ 77 - 78F for such a long time.

Thanks for the formula,

Dan

leslieruf's picture
leslieruf

that is a lovely open crumb! how does that compare?

Leslie

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Are you asking how it compares to my go to SD?

If so, it is not as sour as I had hoped. Maybe it is my starter that is maintained to favor yeast, not sure. My favorite SD is Teresa’s SFSD with no close second. I haven’t given up on Dab’s method. I am in the process as I write this of rebaking Dab’s bread. I left the Levain in the refrigerator for 3 days instead of the instructed 2, hoping to build more acids. As you know, I’m pretty tenacious.

Oh, my crumb is getting much more open since I started proofing 2 hours or so @ room temp before refrigerating. Once I master the open crumb, I plan to go back to my favorite lacey honeycomb style crumb. Nuts, I know. I wanted to learn to bake open crumb as a goal. But in fact I don’t care to eat it. It was all about the challenge.

Dan

not.a.crumb.left's picture
not.a.crumb.left

That looks stunning inside and out! I know you like your sour but I bet this was delicious too!  Kat

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

then we can do this a bit differently.  If you have  NMNF Rye Starter that has been stored in the fridge for 16 weeks use that for the 10 g of starter.  Instead of all whole grain wheat for the levain use half whole grain wheat and half whole grain rye.  The instead of 78 F use 92 F for the levain and all counter work  Make the levain in 2 stages.  The first stage is all the bran from the sifted whole grains - 6 hours at 100% hydration, then add the high extration portion of the whole grain and stiffen it up to 70% hydration.

When it doubles stir it down and let it sit in the fridge for 3 days.  Then do eveything else the same but at 92 Fending up at the same hydration as before.  Then retard the dough for 18 hours.  Then do everything else the same but at 92 F.  Just watch the dough.  Since yeast is retarded like it was at (66 F) when it is 92 F the doubling of things should be slower that at 78 F.  But the LAB is now reproducing at a a rate 10-13 times times more than the yeast is at 92 F.

The series of cold snaps with the high temp in between should give you great sour and tang and way more sour than before.

Your first attempt had huge holes and should have good sour - well done indeed - but this one will put it to shame sour wise.

Happy Baking the sour way!

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Dab, just checked the refrigerator and I have a 16 week (approximate - label shows 2-18) NMNF Rye starter. I am going to try and build a Levain with it. I will start the build early tomorrow so I can watch it.

Thanks again for the help. I have never been able to make a bread that was too sour for me. I would like to push it to the max and then back off until I find the sweet (or sour) spot for my taste.

Dan

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

I failed to get your instructions about a 2 stage build. You told me to use 10g starter, so I’m not sure.

Since I missed the 2 stage build I decided to try this last night. It will give me 160g Levain.

6:12:12 (wheat & rye bran) @ 92F  - - - had to ferment 6 hours because not much was happening. It rose 1/3

Then 30:24:24 (wheat rye & extraction) @ 92F  - - - This time it doubled in 4 hours.

Finally 78:44:44 (what grain or flour do you recommend for this feed?) I assume more wheat & rye extraction.@ 92F

Total Levain = 160g. Note; you told me to start with 10g starter

Will this work? Any other suggestions?

The initial build was very sluggish. The second build doubled in 4 hr @ 92F.

Dan

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

once ever 6 hours.  The first feeding is bran and the 2nd feeding is high extraction flour but what you did is OK too.  The temperature is what is important.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

I followed the instructions above fermenting @ 92F when left at room temp. The bread itself baked up outstanding. The crumb is beautiful. But so far, it isn’t extremely sour. The flavor is very good. Maybe the bread will gain sour over the next day or so, but I’m not thinking so.

Thanks Dab, for taking the time to help. Not sure why I didn’t get the sour, my NMNF rye starter was at least 16 weeks old, and it smelled it :). The starter was obviously healthy, by the looks of the crumb and bloom. I may have to throw this one atop the pile of things that I don’t know ;-)

Dan

Ru007's picture
Ru007

What a lovely looking loaf! Inside and out! I also use a NMNF rye starter and my loaves don't really get too sour either even when the starter is fairly old. Hmmmm... interesting. 

Well, I'm sure tasted fantastic any way! 

Ru

 

 

DesigningWoman's picture
DesigningWoman

This is even more handsome than bake n°2. Love the crumb. Kudos for Dab's coaching, too.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

picture perfect SFSD style bread we all love.  Sour is relative.  You will only get the sour that your wee beasties can muster giving it all the tricks in the trade to do their best to make it as sour as they can for both lactic and acetic acid.

The NMNF starter is not the most sour one I have made but it is consistently sour enough and so easy to maintain by doing nothing and doing nothing is what I want do best - all the time!

The most sour bread I have made, by far,  is with a whole wheat Desem Starter and that is what I would point you to doing next on your sour quest.  I think I later made it in the Detmolder style using Desem but can't remember if it was more sour than straight Desem.

That is one great bread you have there Dan - well done indeed!

leslieruf's picture
leslieruf

lovely lovely crumb. next bake will room temp proof longer too!

happy happy baking Dan 😊

Leslie

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

In an attempt to increase the sour flavor, the Levain remained refrigerated for 3 days instead of the recommended 48 hr.  Since I own a proofer all warm proofing was done @92F. The Acetic flavor (sharpness) of this bread was more noticeable. Normally, my breads are baked @ 500F and then later dropped to 460F, which produces very chewy bread. Following Dab’s instructions, this bread was baked @ 460F and dropped to 425F convection resulting in a very soft and squeezable bread.

 

The bread was sliced and tasted the day after it was baked. I expect the flavor to increase over the next couple of days. Sourdough breads are a lot like fresh smoked cheese, IMO. Aging brings out better and more intense flavors.

Dan

DesigningWoman's picture
DesigningWoman

Dan, you should be tickled pink with this one, even if it's not up to your "sour" expectations. It really is lovely.

Bon appétit!

 

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

For me, proofing the dough @ RT until moderately proofed BEFORE retarding has produced an open crumb. 

I wonder if retarding the Levain longer will bring out the sour.

Dan

DesigningWoman's picture
DesigningWoman

It's wonderful how we all learn stuff together, and how you're all so generous about sharing what you learn.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

Dan and I will take it to IM