The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Peter Reinhardt crust & crumb levained multigrain

Chrisunger's picture
Chrisunger

Peter Reinhardt crust & crumb levained multigrain

Hi,  this is my first time on site.  I was wondering if anyone has baked this loaf?  I made it and am wondering if the quantities of honey and sugar are correct?

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Great to have you on board. I haven't but I can take a look to see if it falls within a normal percentage. What makes you question the quantities?

Just googled and found this... http://youcandoitathome.blogspot.co.uk/2010/11/peter-reinharts-multigrain.html

A comprehensive write up someone has done.

Chrisunger's picture
Chrisunger

I made the bread but it was extremely sweet.  I also have baked from the Hamelman bread book.  He only uses a max of 4% honey. The recipe in PR boom  uses 19% honey and 21% brown sugar.  I am in Australia - just wondering if Americans like a much sweeter bread than we do?

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

can you send me the recipe?

Chrisunger's picture
Chrisunger

Levained Multigrain bread

8oz (227g) starter (100%)

8oz (227g) bread flour (100%)

4oz (114g) multigrain blend (50%)

1.5oz (43g) cooked brown rice (19%)

1.5oz (43g) brown sugar (21%)

0.33oz (9g) salt(4%)

1.5oz (43g) honey (19%)

4oz (114g) buttermilk (50%)

1/2 cupUS (120g) water (50%)

(The % is listed above the ingredients in the book.  I learnt bakers % from the Hamelman book, and I thought the total flour was represented as 100% - this includes the flour used in the levain, I thought,,,)

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Yes...

The flour is 100% and everything else is a percentage of the flour.

But a formula can be written a few ways. You might find the total formula where the flour and water from the starter is put back into the flour and water giving you the total. And then redone to include the starter as a percentage to the flour in the final recipe. For example:

 

Total Formula:

  • Flour: 100%
  • Water: 70%
  • Salt: 2:

Now we punch in some numbers:

  • Flour: 500g
  • Water: 350g
  • Salt: 10g

So far so good. Now we need to work out how much flour is prefermented and re-arrange the formula once this has been done. So let's say one preferments 10% of the flour. That'll be 50g taken from the flour. And your starter is 100% hydration. So that is 50g from the water. It'll then look something like this:

  • Flour: 450g
  • Water: 300g
  • Salt: 10g
  • Starter: 100g

If this is given as a percentage then it'll look like this:

  • Flour: 100%
  • Water: 66.6%
  • Salt: 2.2%
  • Starter: 22.2%

Anyway... that's just a side point. What is in this multigrain? Is it a flour? Seeds/wholegrains?

HansB's picture
HansB

Most of our bread here in the US are not sweet.

Chrisunger's picture
Chrisunger

PR multigrain brd

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

is a flour! Then most people include that in the 100% flour. All depends on what multigrain means.

Whatever the case your workings seem correct! If too sweet then you can alter the sweetness to your liking.

Chrisunger's picture
Chrisunger

I used a combination of sunflower, sesame and flaxseeds.  This is what the book noted...

 

Multigrain bread

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

The book gives advice on

Polenta, Oats and wheat bran.

So while it's not technically flour and won't be added to the 100% flour in the formula these will all soak up water differently to the seeds you used. These are grains and you used seeds. The dough will behave and feel differently. Sweetness aside.

As far as sweetness goes why not experiment and see. This can be changed without altering the recipe too much.

Chrisunger's picture
Chrisunger

Thanks for all your help.  I adjusted the hydration to what looked appropriate to me.  (I prefer to make dough on the wetter side as it seems to make a higher rising loaf for me - did I mention I’m a beginner.....)  The bread had a small open crumb, the crust was chewy, but it was almost as sweet as cake.  Oh well, the birds enjoyed it!

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

I'd follow this recipe again. Try and use grains for multigrain. Any combo you like. Miss out the sugar altogether and reduce the honey (or you can miss that out too).

Chrisunger's picture
Chrisunger

Ok thanks heaps.   🙄 Will try again.  

tgrayson's picture
tgrayson

I think this is like the Struan in "The Breadbaker's Apprentice"; the bread is unusually sweet.

pmccool's picture
pmccool

So much so that I only made it once.  Reinhart admits to a sweet tooth but I don't like my breads that sweet. 

Paul

Chrisunger's picture
Chrisunger

I thought the book must have had a misprint the bread was so sweet.  I certainly won’t be adding a high percentage of sugar/sugar in the future.  I have my own mashed up recipe for seed bread which I do put honey in.  But it’s only 30g for 2 loaves.  Don’t know if it was my imagination, but the magpies seemed to look at me quizzically when they tasted it too😀

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

(the photo recipe with two versions). Careful with those pencil translations to grams.  The cups are off on the starter.  Two cups of firm starter would weigh more.   A firm starter is closer to 50% water.   To get 227 g of starter inoculate  73g water +  146g flour or thereabouts with... 30 to 40 g mature starter.  Amounts can be reduced  if using a 100% hydration starter (half water, half flour) but a little extra is good.  Bread flour may require 65% water for a firm starter.  The starter/levain should feel like a stiff dough, not dry tough or crumbly but wet enough to hold together and still call it a dough.

Yes, too sweet for me!    ... and I find brown rice is generally sweet tasting too.  

 

Chrisunger's picture
Chrisunger

Hi Mini, thanks for that.  I will need to measure properly next time - the book is in imperial measurements, obviously, I use metric  (I think a US cup is about 240ml, a metric cup is 250ml).  This was the first time I have used a stiff starter.  I usually use 100% hydration.  I will go over my measurements again and fix.  Thanks for the heads up.  

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

starter is made, it. Takes a little bit longer to Ferment.  Start it early, several days early so the yeast numbers can get up there where they can work to lift heavy doughs.  I would go thru a couple of firm feedings first with a small amount of starter and only chill when happy with the speed of the starter.  With each feeding the starter should be faster by a couple of hours at 24° C.  

The freshly fed starter will first make a nice ball shape and eventually crack and slump, all bubbly and oozy inside and smell wonderful!   Take out a generous spoonful, add a spoonful of water and enough flour to make a another nice dough ball.  Roll in flour and watch it under an inverted glass bowl or drop it into a jar.  Then find a use for the discard or save refrigerated. Ev. a 123 sourdough or a familiar recipe and compare the results with a more liquid sourdough starter.  The discard can also be mixed with more flour until it crumbs and pressed into tight ping pong sized balls and chilled as future backup.  Dust with flour and ignore for months at a time.

This looks like a dessert bread.

Chrisunger's picture
Chrisunger

I thought my stiff levain was ripe when it had lots of bubbles and had domed.  That’s when I fed it again.  Did this for 3 days before using it.  Sounds like it wasn’t ripe enough ☹️.  Am I supposed to let it crack and slump before I use it in a loaf or just when growing a good strong brew, or both?  

What do you mean by Ev. A 123?  (Please pardon my ignorance - still a newbie at all this)

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

a 1,2,3 sourdough recipe. ( 1 weight of sourdough starter, 2 weights of water, 3 weights of flour...1.6 to 2% salt on the total flour weight.)  It's a fun exercise and an easy to remember recipe using just about any weight of starter.

Sounds like the starter wasn't stiff but if you pepped it up well, it should work fine.   :)

 

Chrisunger's picture
Chrisunger

Hi, thanks for that I will definitely try it.  Just wondering, is there a maximum amount of levIn you can add to a dough?  what happens to the loaf - taste rising etc.  

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

or levain is just that, spent and tired dough to some degree depending on the fermentation process it went through.  Fresh flour is added if the prefermented flour is too tired to rise again.  Depending on the condition of the pre-fermented dough, the next rise is effected.  It is a continual process of us providing food for a group of bacteria and yeasts and taking advantage of their byproducts including the gas they give off while the bacteria and yeast (wee beasties) are trying to decompose the food.  Baking kills them and stops the decomposing process.

The whole idea of raising bread is to use the gas and steam formed during fermenting (or sometimes a chemical reaction) and baking while it can still trap the gasses and steam.  Dough ( and that includes starter)  will eventually loose its ability to trap gas and leak like a sieve.  That's the nature of the little beasties. Your starter, when you feed it and let it ferment will show you this pattern.  The more fermented dough (starter) added to fresh dough, the faster it decomposes and breaks down and ...the sooner it has to be baked before it no longer can trap gas.  Our fun is trying to get the best out of this natural process.  

 

Chrisunger's picture
Chrisunger

Thank you for all your information.  You have been so helpful.  I am, I suppose you would call 'experimenting" with the recipes I have.  I am trying to find a recipe which provides me with those wonderful different sized holes, chewy crust, high rise, mild but complex taste and lots of seeds - the impossible loaf?   Extra bread goes to good friend's homes, while complete failures go to feeding hungry, cold, birds.  I am enjoying the journey.  

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

You will have to sacrifice some qualities for others.  Very hard to get all the qualities you want into one loaf. Keep good notes and happy baking journey!