Are bubbles necessary in "restarting" starter (qs on old post)
Hi all
First time poster, long time lurker! I have been nurturing a starter since one year ago when I made it from scratch, using it regularly and giving it regular feedings and then sticking it in the fridge, sometimes for 3 weeks at a time when on vacation. At first it used to give me spongy bigger loaves, now the latest couple has given me a super dense loaf which rose only a little (still tasty), which looked like this:
I have been thinking I need to rejuvenate my starter, so I read up some old posts on the forum, and for the last few days have been following user Mini Oven's instructions here: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/comment/201360#comment-201360.
I just did the third day; and waking up this AM the starter had definitely doubled (perhaps tripled) but no bubbles to be seen at all:
Does anyone know whats going on here? Is it time to discard and start anew? Again, definitely getting some rising in the starter, but no great bubbling. Help me figure out the issue! if it helps, I have been using tap water left out overnight (so, chlorine dissipates) and have no chlorinates in my water (per latest tap water testing). Thank you for any help!
What do you mean "no bubbles"? It's full of bubbles!
Haha, the bread has it but the yeast really not so much! The other images I've seen in forums have big blowing bubbles. Is there another reason the bread doesn't rise at all?
No, your starter has tons of bubbles. It looks just like a liquid starter should. Liquid starters do not have big bubbles.
I don't think there's a problem with your starter...your crumb structure isn't too bad, but might could have stood some more bulk fermentation. I'd say you're not overproofed because the crust looks deep brown. Looks to me your bread rose out, rather than up. I'd guess it needs more structure.
Would help for you to post your recipe and process.
Thanks. My recipe is actually based on this lady's youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkA8JUmLT8k
Its 3 cups flour to 1 cup starter + 1 cup water (a wetter recipe), usually make it in early evening, do a few turns before I go to sleep, and bake it in the morning. I typically do 2.5c (organic) all purpose, the remaining 1/2c local stoneground rye and barley, but I'm imprecise about the proportions.
Before baking, heat oven to 475, put cast iron inside to heat it, put dough into wax paper bowl, let it rise (while oven/cast iron heats) for an hour, then transfer and bake 25-30 with lid on, 25 (or when looks ready) with lid off.
Any suggestions or help would be incredibly appreciated. Always trying to learn!
By "turns", I assume you mean stretch & folds. Since your hydration is in the 75% range, I would do S&Fs until the dough feels strong. I would also do the same thing before shaping. For me that sometimes requires 2 or 3 S&Fs before I do the final shape.
Also, a final rise of only an hour for a dough that requires all night for bulk ferment seems too short; are you using the finger-poke test to see if the dough is ready?
I don't do the test, no. Perhaps that is the issue? How long would you guesstimate to rise after all night bulk ferment?
My own process is very different, so it's hard for me to say. And I throw in a bit of commercial yeast to speed things along. Even so, I expect a 2 hour final proofing. I think 4 hours is more common.
If there are no bubbles in it? It's not making more flour and water.
Fair enough, thank you! Is there any suggestion on why as of late - using the same recipe for almost a year - the bread rises only half as much as before? Any way to debug/test? I've always had it at 100% hydration; should I be doing it differently? Thank you!
Or some other factor has tipped your starter in favour of bacteria. If this is the case then you need to maintain your starter so it'll favour and build back up the yeasts.
Giving your starter healthy feeds, fermenting at room temperature and allowing it to fully peak before the next feed should help.
How about a feed of 1:5:5 and adding in some wholegrain too? Keep this up for the next two or three days then try another loaf.
Will definitely try that. Sorry to be dense (no pun) but 1:5:5 is 1 part starter to 5 flour and 5 water, right? Eg 20g/100g/100g?
Thanks [Todah rabah if your lechem moniker is Hebrew ;)]
That's is correct!
Don't forget to not throw a the discard (as you might be building quite a bit for this) but use it in your cooking. Pancakes, waffles, kneidles? (Never tried kneidle with sourdough but can't hurt).
P.s. perhaps 10g + 50g + 50g might be better so you don't build and discard too much.
OOH kneidle would be a really tayim interesting suggestion! I've been doing discard pancakes from this recipe (https://zerowastechef.com/2016/04/01/sourdough-pancakes/) which are wonderful, but you have any suggestions for kneidle recipes where starter would work?
Since starter can be used basically wherever a recipe calls for flour and water I just thought it'd make a nice idea. Why not experiment? Use your own recipe or find any recipe and replace the flour and water with starter.