The Fresh Loaf

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Chasing new flavour

leslieruf's picture
leslieruf

Chasing new flavour

DanAyo"s recent post prompted a response by Trevor Wilson.

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/56018/acedic-vs-lactic-flavor

So time to give this a shot, see if I could do a long warm fermentation such as Trevor suggested without the dough degrading and see what effect it has on flavour.

Sunday morning:  Refresh my mother starter (basically a 1:2:3)  which lives in the fridge. 

Sunday evening: Refresh again keeping to this ratio, making a bit more than I required.

Trevor's suggestion was  to make a lower hydration dough eg 65% hydration with the stiff levain being only 10% of the total dough weight.

330 g flour

214 g water

6 g salt

So Monday morning 7 am I weighed out 55 g stiff levain and added 214 g water.  Then added some of the flour to make a thick slurry before adding the salt and the rest of the flour.  I hand kneaded until I was close to window pane.

As I don't have a proofer, I used the microwave to heat a cup of water, then placed the dough container in the microwave with the light on and the door cracked open.  It held the temperature quite happily at about 80 deg F.

1 pm As per instruction, once the dough had doubled at the 6 hour mark, I removed dough and degassed with firm stretch and folds then returned it to the microwave.

3 pm  repeated the degassing and stretch and folds, did a fairly firm preshape, and returned the dough to the microwave for 60 minutes. 

4 pm The dough had puffed up again so degassed again, shaped firmly into a boule and left to proof.  Pre heated oven and DO.

5:30 pm I think dough is ready to bake, but as dough is warm, instead of scoring I snipped a square shape the baked in DO lid on, fan on at 230 deg C for 15 minutes, 15 minutes lid off.

Crumb shot

The flavour was definitely mild, crumb is soft and close but it is not dense.  

I was happy the dough did not degrade and I think I could probably have left the first bulk ferment a bit longer, it had doubled but was no where near tripling.  The second rise was quicker and it did more than double.  Shaping was not difficult and the dough although warm was not sticky.  It was fun to try something different and  I will try again I think.

While all this was going on, I repeated last week's bake of 25% wholewheat loaves comparing the 2 grains.  This bake was better than last week I think.  When I mixed the levain on Sunday evening I added the bran to the mix to help soften it.  

South Island wheat (780 g loaf)

Crumb

North Island wheat (900 g loaf)

Crumb

Not much between them I reckon.  I think too, adding bran to one of the levain builds is really upping the activity. 

This is a rewrite - tried last night but the gremlins got me, and I lost the whole post.....  :( 

Leslie

 

Comments

hreik's picture
hreik

I am curious to hear how the flavor profiles are.  Esp. between N and s Island loaves.

I routinely add a small amount of rye to the last build of my starter, so it's in the levain only at the end.  I think it contributes a lot to the flavor even when the levain total is just a small percentage of the total.  like 10%

Beautifully done, Leslie

hester

leslieruf's picture
leslieruf

so had to do a test. and yesthere is a slight difference, NI is a bit more mellow. will retest again next time to see if I still think that.  thank you for the idea, Hester.

Yes, next bake will definitely move on to adding rye and/or increasing the wholewheat. 😊

Leslie

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

I too am curious about the flavour of the two grains. To me, since I don’t do side by side experiments, I can’t really tell if one thing tastes better than the other. They all taste good to me as long as I use some freshly milled grain. If I don’t, then that’s where I can really tell there is something different. The freshly milled grain loaves taste so much better. 

Your first loaf looks amazing. Perfect for sandwiches!

leslieruf's picture
leslieruf

I love being able to mill grain myself, theflavours are definitely better.I did have to deliberately have a small slice from each loaf today to compare, orherwise as you say, it would be hard to tell.

Leslie

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Leslie, you said, “Then added some of the flour to make a thick slurry before adding the salt and the rest of the flour.  I hand kneaded until I was close to window pane.” I’m curious. When you added the salt to the slurry, did the structure of the slurry noticeably change? Did you add only the salt or was it mixed with your flour? A few weeks back I thought I would be slick. I always liquify my starter in the dough water before adding the flour and salt. But this time I thought, why not add the salt to the water and the add the Levain. When I did this the starter got “tough” and wouldn’t integrate properly. Did you notice anything of the sort?

When we got off the phone I checked out this post. Reducing the Levain may intensify the flavor, but the bulk ferment will take longer. In my experiments the longer the warm ferment, the greater the flavor. You mentioned the long time wouldn’t fit your schedule. What if you used less Levain and increased the temp to 84F or so? That would increase the fermentation activity and also excite the Lactic acid bacteria. Dabrownman uses 92F at times. I assume you are checking the dough temp and not the ambient temp of the microwave. I’ve learned that for the first 4 hours or so (lag time) the dough temperature is cooler than once the fermentation starts to take place. The act of fermentation increases the temperature of the dough.

A few things to think about...

Dan

leslieruf's picture
leslieruf

didn’t seem to have an effect, or rather I didnt notice it. I was worried that it would be hard to incorporate such a small amount of starter but t mixed in really well and I think I got good distribution throuhout the main dough.

I didn’t check dough temperature after my initial measurement, just went with the air temperature in the microwave.  So next time I will drop the levain a little and see how it is. then after that will try increasing temperature.  yes lotsto think about.

thanks Danny

Leslie

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

Doing a side by side is a good way to see what tastes the best to you.  Bran has only 20% starch instead of the 70-80* in regular white flour so these is less food for the wee beasties but most the all the vitamins minerals and essential elements found in the grain are in the bran.  I look at bran like an energy drink for the wee beasties.  If the levain has flour and all the bran from the whole grains this is like fertilizing the wee beasties with Miracle Grow:-)

Love the crumb on the last 2 but wish I could taste them with you to pick my favorite.  Happy baking Leslie

leslieruf's picture
leslieruf

the difference you get adding the bran amazes me - I had been concerned it would up the sour, but it doesn’t and I think my bread is slowly getting better.

give Lucy a tummy rub - just to make sure she is in a good mood for the next bake.  really enjoyed your last couple of posts

Leslie

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

I was under the impression that 100% bran would be a good feed. What percentage of flour to bran do you recommend?

Dan

not.a.crumb.left's picture
not.a.crumb.left

and beautiful breads...I also spotted Dan's post and must try this.......as well as the trick with adding bran... Kat