Starter on steroids
Three weeks ago, I gave a homework assignment to a class: make a sourdough starter and bring a levain to bake with at the next class. Today is the next class. There are some additional students for class today, so I needed levain for them, too.
To keep up with the students who were making new starters and to show them how it works, I built a new starter, too. We have a class Facebook page, so I was able to post photos for people to see.
So, in preparation for today's class, I mixed up levain using my new starter. That was about 845 last evening. I took this photo at 10:30. The initial volume in the container was at the 2 liter mark. As you can see, it has more than doubled. It eventually got a little higher than the 5 liter mark. This morning, at 7 o'clock, it has receded to slightly higher than 3 1/2 liters.
Room temperature last evening was about 75 to 77°F.
I don't know what kind of yeast strains are in this particular starter, but they seem to be very active. The starter flavor is still quite mild. There's very little acid in either the flavor or in the odor at this stage. there wasn't a plan to keep this particular starter after the class but now I think maybe I should. Any starter that moves this fast is definitely something worth hanging onto. Perhaps I'll blend it with my existing starter to see if I can get the flavor and the yeast activity in one starter.
What was different? Did you do this at home? In school kitchen? Different flour?
Three weeks ago I got new flour from Montana. The dough rose so well and and my oven spring was so good I just converted my starter to one using this flour. It's very active and has a slightly less zing in the aroma department but I prefer that.
I'd be interested to learn of your experiment. Maybe have 3 for a while. A pure one of each and a blend.
Good luck
hester
for the first week. Then I started adding whole wheat and bread flour to the mix, too. The rye flour was from Great River Milling Company. The only exceptional thing during incubation was that the 'dead' phase lasted just barely 24 hours.
We'll see what happens when I combine the two.
Paul
I love it when starters go wild! I have been doing something slightly different for my last two bakes. I revive my starter using bran left from milling flour using a 1:2:2 ratio. I leave it for at least 24 hours stirring it every 8 hours or so. Then I feed it bread flour at a 1:4:5 ratio and it had tripled 7 hours later. I stirred it down as I wasn’t ready for it and it has almost tripled in 5 hours.
I definitely would keep that starter and also incorporate it in with your existing one. I found that mixing starters kept properties of each.
Danni, How do you get a 1:2:2 go 24 hours, especially using bran? Is it the stirring every 8 hr that allows the Levain to continue to rise through a 24 hr period?
What temperature is the Levain growing in?
Dan
I was going off the top of my head and it really is 1:3:3 when I checked my notes. The Levain actually just sits there. Bran Levain doesn’t rise. I don’t worry about it. I keep smelling it to make sure that the beasties are in there multiplying like crazy and the stirring makes sure that they are in contact with new food on a regular basis.
I got the idea from a post a couple of weeks ago where someone posted that they did an experiment where they didn’t feed their Levain but just kept stirring it. I believe it wasn’t till the end of the week before the Levain wouldn’t rise anymore.
DAB always says that there is plenty of food in bran for a Levain so this is one way for the sifted bran to end up back in a loaf but having lots of contact with the acid in the Levain to soften up those hard bits.
Oh and I keep the Levain on the counter at room temp which is 73F in my house.
So I’m wondering. Is it that large bits of bran that can’t be broken down as easily as flour (because the flour is ground to dust and completely exposed) are capable of extended feeding? I’m thinking the chunks of bran are more of a “time released” type of feed.
Am I on the right track with this?
The things I learn on this site are countless and have enhanced my baking beyond description. I say agin, THANKS Floyd.
Dan
Dabrownman is the one to ask. He has all the scientific explanations!
Danni, what setting are you using on your KoMo when you grind? Do you ever grind in order to get bran and if so, what setting? What size screen do you use to extract?
Dan
I hear them touch and then move them back two clicks. Nope, i never grind to just get bran. I get plenty from just milking to get flour. I have the Komo sifter and i use their finest screen. It comes with 3. If I remember, it is a #24 mesh screen which I understand really isn’t that fine. Komo says it’s extra fine. I don’t know which it is but it give me what I need.
unlike any other I've worked with. I will make up a combination this evening so that I have the chance to keep an eye on it.
Paul
Starters, that is. Not quite on a par with Indy car or Nascar speeds but intriguing, nonetheless.
Here's the setup: compare the rates of rise for my longtime starter, the new speedster from a class project, and a combination of the two. Same environment - a cozy 78F in the B&T proofer. Same food - a blend of whole wheat flour (25%), rye flour (25%), and bread flour (50%). Same containers. Same quantities and proportions for starter, water and flour - 1:2:3. Photos taken at (approximately) 1-hour intervals. In all photos, the old starter is on the left, the new starter on the right, and the blended starter in the center.
Just mixed and ready to go:
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One hour in. Not much to see:
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Two hours in. Some bubbles visible and the center and right containers show some volume increase:
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Three hours in. The new starter on the right is easily doubled and the blended starter is close behind. The old starter is perhaps 50% larger.:
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Four hours in. The old starter has at least doubled while the blended and new starters are more than doubled. Note that the new starter has domed:
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Five hours in. The new starter is beginning to recede. The old starter hasn't quite caught up to the blended starter which appears to have reached peak:
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Six hours in. The new starter continues to collapse. The old starter seems to be at peak; there's not much difference from the previous hour. The blended starter appears to be receding:
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Seven hours in. All three are collapsing although the blended starter seems to be doing so more slowly:
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Eight hours in. The old and blended starters appear to have bottomed out. The new starter appears to have started a second expansion:
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Thus endeth the photo log. I'm not sure that I could have endured any more adrenaline surges...
The new starter is definitely faster than the old starter. And the blended starter is somewhat faster than the old starter, though not quite as fast as the new starter. So I think I'll maintain each of them for a while; at least until I have the opportunity to do a side by side bake and compare the flavors. That should provide a very clear indication of the path forward. After all, I want leavening and flavor, not fast leavening at the expense of flavor.
Paul
Thank you for the commentary because it is hard to see the differences in the photos. Mind you, it is probably because I am on my phone.
I’m curious Paul, since the new starter is starting to recede @ 5 hours using 1:2:3, how do you plan to feed it? I’m assuming you plan to feed at room temp twice a day.
I had a starter that cycled feed to recede and the shortest cycle I could get was 8 hours. I ended up using KA AP flour and no whole grains @ 76F and mixing 1:3:5. It now runs a consistent 12hr cycle. But I don’t think it is as strong as it was.
Dan
The flour consumption would be too much if it didn't.
Having a fast, mild-flavored starter isn't a bad thing. Maintaining two starters wasn't part of the game plan, though. I suppose the next step is to do some baking with a blend of the two starters to see how it behaves and how the resulting bread tastes. If I can have the best of both in a single starter, that will become my go-to starter.
Paul