April 10, 2018 - 5:00am
Ciabatta No Windowpane
No idea why. Followed a recipe (http://www.breadcetera.com/?p=101) exactly and mixing on a speed of 2 for 15 mins + Kitchen Aid Mixer [4.5 qt, 300 watt model] creates a sticky dough that doesn't pass the windowpane test...can anyone tell me what gives?
I used a poolish that was bubbly and rose almost double...
Final dough with poolish + all water + mixing time of 15 minutes+:
https://snag.gy/szf3Rb.jpg <~~~~ Windowpane test fail
I used AP flour (no bread flour). AP flour is a ConAgra Harvest AP Flour.
Thank you.
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You say you followed the recipe exactly, yet you used a mixer and the recipe did not. Maybe you deviated in other ways from the recipe? The hydration of the dough is a bit too high for the dough hook of a KA to do a good job.
There was no way on earth I wanted to mix that. How is it possible my hands are better than the mixer?! :/
"How is it possible my hands are better than the mixer?! :/"
You just discovered one reason. :-) KAs are not good with very wet doughs.
The author of the recipe explains that high hydration doughs have a hard time developing gluten, so he uses the "double hydration" method; mix the dough at a lower hydration, then add more water at the end.
If you want to avoid hand kneading, I see three options:
1) Use a food processor, or
2) Use a mixer on the dough at a lower hydration for the 5-6 minutes it takes to develop the dough, then resort to the hand folding to add the extra water, or
3) You *might* be able to mix the dough for a while using the paddle, until the dough has enough solidity to use the dough hook.
oh okay...thank you
I did a double hydration in the mixer the way I saw some small handful of youtube videos doing it. They'd mix first to develop gluten, then add the rest right into the mixer. I did that but no go....then again i didnt check for "gluten" development on the first mix......:/
I have a food processor with a dough blade...but that wouldnt really mix the dough...it would cut it up. I guess you mean put the whole wet mass in there with all the water and not holding any back?
Don't use the dough blade, use the metal one. And no, it won't cut up the bread. I've successfully made some 100% hydration doughs in the FP, it could handle your hydration.
Note that excessive mixing oxidizes the dough and degrades the flavor; this is one reason that stretch & folds are favored over the extended mixing required for wet doughs.
You'll find in in the "Most Bookmarked" section on the TFL home page, lower right hand side. Even if you don't want to use that specific recipe, the techniques should be useful to you since it is based on using a planetary style mixer such as a KitchenAid.
Paul
Hi Paul
Thank you for your reply! I actually did look at that before I came here - but I kind of dismissed it because he stated mixing has to be for 30 minutes. It also severely irks me on the fact that he didn't state many details. Mix at what speed, etc. ?
bread anyway. The hydration is way too low. For AP flour I would start thinking about calling it ciabatta at 85% hydration and for bread flour it would 90%. The only time I check for a window pane on any bread made in the mixer is panettone and it has much lower hydration but is an enriched dough. The rest of the time checking for widow pane takes me back to 1970 when people made bad bread with mixers:-) Just kidding of course for all of you Mixer Folks who think that artisan bread can be made with machines when it can only be made by hand - by definition.
It is sexual gratification that can only be achieved by the use of machines - according to those in the know and famous musicians too. Maybe that was an acid flashback but I don't think so.
Forget the window pane test, add some water to the mix and use your hands to make this bread. You will be rewarded for it and it will be better for your hands on artisan craftsmanship. There is a great youtube video of the fabulous Fresh Lofian Crocodillo Ciabatta mentioned above. You will think she is crazy to do what she does but she follows the recipe exactly and makes the best ciabatta at 95% hydration for AP flour if I remember right. There is a reason this is the most bookmarked recipe on TFL. Check it out. It uses a KA mixer just like yours to mix the dough up...if you can call it dough:-)
Thanks for your thorough reply. Saw her video. Still irks me the original recipe never makes mentions of mixing speeds, etc.
Now my question is - how are my hands more "powerful" than a mixer at level 10?! Seems like it's not a job for hands if it takes a mixer 7 minutes on ultra high 10 speed to get the consistency...lol
It is like the link between space and time called - pace time. Hands and time make wet dough way easier to handle than messing with a mixer if you aren't a professional baker making 50 pounds of dough at a time. Just pick it up and fold it over in a tub a couple of times every hour until it passes the window pane test if passing it is a big deal for you. I never check for it with bread dough except for enriched dough where It is going ti triple in volume. Make cookies and cakes with the KA but I don't use it for them either. Biggest waste if $300 ever but I would miss it for panettone .......but last time i made panettone I think used slap and folds if I remember right, Never mind. My KA actually sits out in the living room where no one ever goes. My wife uses it at Christmas time wo=ith the -=daughter for cookies though,
Bump!
I find 15 min mixing time in a mixer is quite excessive! I usually do these higher hydration dough by hand through couple folds every 15 min, and by the third fold I can pass window pane test.
I also want to point out poolish can make your dough proof relatively fast, so if temp increased by mixing it for so long result in increase temp in a wet dough might make it ferment even faster.
Oil will make dough softer, but shouldn't affect window pane..
Just my two cents :)