The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

beautiful buns....date yeast water and rye levain

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

beautiful buns....date yeast water and rye levain

Another double levain dough. I joined a facebook group that uses only yeast waters for baking. Wow....there is SO much info and amazing pictures of breads etc. Anyway I got my feet wet , so to speak with date water. I took a small amount of my AYW and inoculated it with 6 dried dates. Whoa...stand back !  It was full of bubbles in just a couple hours using the lights in my oven to warm it. I added a piece of orange peel, as I do with my apple yeast water, as I think it keeps it from getting too much  alcohol formation. 

733g unbleached KA

266g Spring WW

266g Durum flour

66g yogurt

66g maple syrup

400g ripe rye levain at 100% hydration

100g date YW

600g filtered water 

26g kosher salt

I got many of these figures for this formula from a post Danni had some time back. I double it and changed some things but I have her to thank for the yogurt. It finds its way into all my breads now. I have Ian to thank for the buns :) he has great ones . 

Bread1965 gave me the idea I used for mixing this dough although I changed up one big part. I mixed everything but the salt till a shaggy moist dough. I then covered and set the dough on the radiator to warm. He lets his set for 5 hrs. I think mine was closer to 3 1/2. It was amazingly puffy . Note I did NOTHING but mix to a shaggy stage with a rubber spatula.....no turns or twists or pinches etc. Nothing. I departed from his method at this point. I added the moistened salt by folding in the bowl. I then left it 30min and did a s&f on the board. Dough was SO extensible and puffy  . I waited 30 min and did another s&f. One more at 30 min and that was all. I had gorgeous gluten development. Since I knew I was making buns I then placed it in a bucket and retarded overnight in the fridge at 34 degrees. Look at that growth overnight !! It was barely at 2L when it went into the fridge . 

I removed gently from the bucket and used scissors to cut 3.5 oz pieces. Shaped gently and let rise 1 hr Brushed with egg yolk/half and half mix and sprinkled sesame seeds. Preheated oven to 500. Baked buns for 3 min at 500 and lowered to 475 for 12 min. Rotated pans top to bottom shelves and baked 5 more minutes at 450. Perfect. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

crumb shot added....tender and wonderfully flavorful...just a hint of the date sweetness. Amazingly fragrant crumb

Comments

Lechem's picture
Lechem

Look at the colour on those. And such a lovely crumb too. Levain plus yeast water to-boot. Can only imagine the flavours coming through. 

So you use YW as the fluid. In the last I have "activated" YW by building a Levain with it. So premixed yw and flour and used when it bubbles up. What are the pros and cons of both ways? 

How much of the leavening is coming from each starter when using both? I also noticed it took some time for the YW levain to become fully active and if you have used a mature Sourdough starter it would probably take quicker then that so I'm wondering which one is doing the most work and what you'd get from including the other? 

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

i started them at 500 and used egg yolk mixed with 1/2 and 1/2 just like I do on my Challah. Best color I have ever gotten on buns. The maple syrup plays a part too. I don’t know pro/con of using 100g YW  as part of the 700g Water in the formula vs mixing a 100% hydration levain with 100g YW and 100 g flour. My YW is wildly active very shortly after feeding it dates! And when I mix it with flour it goes crazy and tripled in an hour or so. The dough for the buns as well as the one I made today for bread and will post tomorrow was SO puffy and active. Most amazing dough I have ever made yet. As soon as you get your YW going , take some out and add a few chopped dried dates... stand back. 100g is PLENTY for this size batch. 

 

My rye rye levain was full of bubbles as well but is slower by a couple hours than YW. I like to think they complement each other so the rise has initial as well as later bloom. 

Look forward to your results

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

mixed into my post other than the buns and yeast water? Dannie says weird old pics mixed in. Thanks 

Lechem's picture
Lechem

On my computer I see all normal photos but one photo isn't showing. An empty box with an (x) in the top left hand corner as if it hasn't loaded properly.

Just checked on my phone and it looks like all photos are present and that questionable picture isn't even showing as an unloaded photo.

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

I see the x on my computer but not on phone... oh well all pics are loaded that I wanted to post so don’t know. Thanks for checking! Can hardly wait to see your YW bake!

Lechem's picture
Lechem

29°C (84.2°F) in my Yoghurt Maker. I can't get such accuracy as it doesn't go up in fractions. So it was either 28°C (82.4°F) or 29°C. I've gone for warmer to speed things up and I'm thinking that while the yoghurt maker might be that temperature the core temperature of the YW might be a tad lower bringing it to the optimal temperature. So now I wait to see if it'll be ready by Saturday.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

dividing the dough into exact equal arts for rolls.  I always wanted them the same weight.  But after mixing to a shaggy dog with a spoon and just letting it sit there for hours while you have to do something else, I'm not going to be anal about bun weights anymore - not even my own bun weight for that matter:-)  I'm just going t decide on how many I want and divide it up with a dough scraper.  If one is bigger than the next and you want a bigger bun then take the bigger one for heaven's sake.

Love your bunns, nice and brown and the one thing that Brownmen love is brown buns!  I'm also putting Fig YW and maple syrup in my buns from now on too.

Well done and happy baking Trail

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

your buns , so cannot comment 😳. You must make buns and definitely use date water! It’s amazing . 6 dates and who knows what will happen... hmmm

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

Mixed in from old posts with these new bun and YW pics? Dannie says all mixed up 

pul's picture
pul

Would be nice to have some here now for my breakfast! Lovely and complex bake. Congrats,

peter

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

will be making a lot of sandwiches with these. My grandson who is 6 loves “ Dammie buns” .. he couldn’t say G thus the nickname.😊 if you get to VA let me know. Thank you Peter 

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

All mixed in with new bun and YW pics? Dannie says it is all messed up when she looks

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

They look really delicious! I bookmarked this. 

Question for you though, weren’t you afraid of deflating the whole thing by mixing in the salt at such a later time since you had already put in the Levain and the yeast water?

ETA: There is something weird with your pictures. The pictures you post of your yeast water, the dough in the bucket and the buns proofing on the baking sheet are all the same ones for several of your blog posts. The initial pictures are different but the rest are repeats. Is TFL doing something odd with your uploads? I only noticed because I was checking out crumb pictures for the method you posted. 

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

the dough does deflate but bounces back SO fast it is crazy! The batch I have retarding right now only got the addition of the salt using turns in the bowl, waited 30 min. Turned it out on the board with light flouring and did 2 gentle s&f put aside 30 min and did one s&f put aside and forgot it because I didn’t set the clock and was on the phone ! Remembered it later and it had almost tripled! Yikes. Took it out and shaped 3 boules very gently. They are in cold fridge. Will post results tomorrow. 

As to pictures they look fine to me... in the past they were completely messed up with only one old bake at the beginning... I have no idea why I have so much trouble with pictures on TFL.  Thanks and do try the buns. c

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

I think that the pictures on this post are the right ones but somehow, they are also in your old posts. Go back and check your old blog posts, at least the last few. I see the Picts in this post even in your pizza posting. You will see the same pictures there. I don’t understand why your most recent pictures would replace your old ones. Just strange. 

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

There is the picture of one of your loaves and below is the same picture of yeast water that is in most of your posts  I had to crop it to stay under the 4 meg limit  For some reason, your new pictures are replacing your old ones  

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

when you get ready to post a picture there is a box that comes up , at least on my computer, and it has the img numbers in that box from previous postings. I have been deleting those before I do a new post to prevent old pictures from getting into my new posts...that was happening all the time. What I didn't know is that when they are deleted from that box they are deleted from the post on TFL and the new pics I am posting are going into that older post  ! Ack...I sure wish you could post pics on here like you can on Facebook. Highlight several and hit enter...done. Oh well. I fixed the date bread pic and put the crumb pic back. I'm not going to go back and fix them all. Let me know if there is a pic you want to see and I can send it to you. Sorry !  c

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

Yes pictures are a pain on this site. I was doing a work around by posting first to Facebook and then linking the pictures from there but after a few weeks, the pictures disappear on TFL even though they are still on Facebook. I think that Facebook breaks or severs the link somehow so all my old posts have pictures missing. 

With the new update that Floyd did, it is a bit easier to post pictures so I have been doing that but they also have to be under 4 megs. I have an iPhone X which takes high resolution pictures. I either have to crop the Picts or transfer them to my laptop to drop the resolution. Maybe there is a way to do that on my phone but I haven’t figured it out yet. 😆 I just figured out how to undo if there isn’t an undo button: You shake the phone and a pop up will appear with the undo option. Who knew? 

SusanMcKennaGrant's picture
SusanMcKennaGrant

Fruited yeast water!  Your rolls look amazing. What a fascinating concept. I  am excited to try this out..!

 

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

do try making YW. Apple is easiest though many use raisins. There are lots of tutorials in TFL if you search. Basically use an organic apple cut up and placed in sterile qt jar with filtered water to cover well. Lightly cover and place in 80F area. Stir a couple times a day will bubble up and smell like cider. Can use to bake about 5-7 days later. To test if ready to use mix a 50/50 100% hydration levain with rye flour and see if it doubles in a few hours. When it does you are ready to bake with it. 

On another note do you see only pics of the buns and dough and YW or are there other pics mixed in? Dannie says it is mixed up with old pics from other posts.. thank you! 

SusanMcKennaGrant's picture
SusanMcKennaGrant

I will definitely try this. I see eight pics of buns, dough and one is a mason jar with the YW in it...Thanks again..

SusanMcKennaGrant's picture
SusanMcKennaGrant

Fruited yeast water!  Your rolls look amazing. What a fascinating concept. I  am excited to try this out..!

 

isand66's picture
isand66

Love this one.  Those buns look nice and soft and tasty!  I have not baked anything in a while since I was traveling then came home with the black death....finally mixed up a starter to bake tomorrow or Sunday.  My wife just made Greek Yogurt in our InstaPot so it will make it's way into my bake this weekend for sure.

Happy Baking!

Ian

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

glad you are back! The date water really makes wonderful breads. Very rich fragrance and no sour to speak of. Very fast rise as well. 

How does she make yogurt in the Insta pot? I don’t have one but have been thinking about getting one. Would love her recipe. Thank you and looking forward to your bakes 

isand66's picture
isand66

I'll see if i can pry it out of her!