February 2, 2018 - 3:55pm
Rye and Flaxseed bread
Hi,
I seem to have a lot of trouble with this rye and flax seed loaf from Paul Hollywood. It does not seem to rise as much as possible and sinks overnight.
I am a newbie to bread making but want to learn.
Any advice appreciated.
Share
Don't worry, it's edible! :)
But if you post your recipe and process then someone will figure out how to help!
Keep at it.. you'll get there!
For the sponge
50g Bread Flour, 100g Rye, 100g Spelt (Sorry said flaxseed on subject), 5g yeast, 200ml water mix leave overnight
For dough
Same flour ingredients + 10g salt, 20ml of olive oil, 150 ml water
Mix together and knead for 10 minutes
Rise for 1.5 hours
Fold dough a few times
Fold sides in to make a rectangle
Place in tin and put in plastic bag for 1.5 hours
Bake at 220 Celsius
The way your recipe reads, you make the sponge and then the next day you add salt, some olive oil and more water.. not any more flour?
Based on that your total flour is 250g, total water is 350g, oil is 20g, salt is 10g and yeast is 5g. Or in bakers percentage you have a 140% hydration dough. So either you missed typing some flour or that's your problem. Typically you'll have recipes that will be between 65% and 100% hydration, depending on what type of bread you're after and what type of flours you're using. The other issue is that spelt is a low protein flour so it's difficult to develop gluten with it - so you might want to limit your spelt to no more than 20% of total flour weight.
Maybe try something like 150g bread flour, 50g rye flour and 50g spelt. Reduce your hydration to around 70% of the total flour weight. And skip the sponge idea and just make it in a single day and see how it works for you. Be sure to give the yeast enough time to develop - let the dough double before shaping and doing a final proof. I'd also say the oil is optional. Try it once with and once without. The oil will give you a softer crumb - which of course is nice.
Good luck! Let's see what you come up with!
500g flour in the recipe. Lightly hidden in writing under "same flour ingredients +" :)
I thought he meant add sponge itself, and the salt/oil, etc.. that makes more sense..
for a slower rise. Use just a pinch for the overnight "poolish" then toss in the rest while mixing up the dough.
Because there is no sour component to help the rye flour, I would be tempted to add a tablespoon of vinegar or a squeeze of lemon juice (replacing some of the water) of the final dough. Pickle juice is also an option. Dig around in the fridge and see what you can find.
Mini.
Paul Hollywood has a website and he has an "Ask Paul" tab. Here is his website.
I couldn't find that particular recipe on his website but I did find it on another site. Is this the recipe??
IngredientsFor the 'sponge':
For the dough:
- 45g strong white bread flour, plus extra for dusting
- 90g rye flour
- 90g spelt flour
- 9g salt
- 4.5g fast-action dried yeast
- 18ml olive oil, plus extra for oiling
- About 140ml cool water
Paul's Method-(My comments in bold italics in parenthesis)For the 'sponge', combine the flours in a bowl, add the yeast and water and mix it to a soft, sticky dough. Cover with cling film or a tea towel and leave to ferment overnight, or for at least 5 hours.
(EDIT: FOR THE SPONGE: Room temp is important-no cooler than 60F or the yeast will go dormant. However, above 70F and the yeast may eat so fast they fizzle out. That is as much yeast as I put in 2 loaves worth of dough. Reduce the amount of yeast to just a pinch for the sponge especially since there is rye in it. Rye acts like candy and yeast devours it rapidly. Add the balance to the final dough.)
(EDIT: FOR THE DOUGH: Ideal temp is at least 75-85F or it will take too long for the final proof.
For the dough, add the flours to the fermented 'sponge' base, then add the salt to one side of the bowl and the yeast to the other. Add the oil and 100ml water and mix together with one hand. Add as much of the remaining water as you need to form a soft, sticky dough.
(Don't add all the water. Add the 100ml,mix and then let the dough sit for 10 minutes to give the dough time to absorb it a bit. Then add more if the dough seems dry or very stiff. Add enough so that when it is worked in, the dough is soft and sticky. But BE AWARE that because of the presence of rye and spelt, this dough will always be sticky so don't add flour in an attempt to make it less sticky. Just work it with a damp-not wet-hand. Look up stretch and fold in the search box. Use that technique once the dough is mixed to a somewhat shaggy mass and holds together.)
Spread some oil on a work surface and tip the dough onto it. Knead thoroughly for 10 minutes, or until you have a smooth, elastic dough.
(Look up stretch and fold. This dough may be too sticky for too much handling. Spelt can be delicate, also)(The fact that he tells you to oil the work surface tells me that this is a very sticky dough. Look up "sticky dough" or "handling sticky dough" in the search box. Using oil or damp hands and fingertips are the options. S&F-stretch and fold- in the bowl using a plastic scraper are better options.)
Shape the dough into a ball and place in a lightly oiled bowl. Leave to rise until doubled in size, about 1.5 hours. Meanwhile, oil a 2lb loaf tin. (I wouldn't go double-go almost double.)
Tip the risen dough out onto a lightly floured surface and flatten it down. Fold the dough in on itself several times, then fold the sides into the middle to form a rectangle and roll up into a sausage, the length of the loaf tin. Place seam side down in the tin.
Put the tin in a roomy plastic bag and leave to prove for 1.5 - 2 hours until risen above the rim of the tin. Meanwhile, heat your oven to 220C.
(Watch carefully-rye/spelt can go from properly proofed to overproofed in a few minutes. Look up "finger poke test" and "overproofed"and "underproofed". This is a loaf that is better to have the oven preheated and ready to go in immediately. This step will be the step most fraught with uncertainty and anxiety-even for more experienced bakers.)
Dust the top of the loaf with white flour and bake for 35-40 minutes, until golden brown and the loaf sounds hollow when tapped on the base. Tip the loaf out of the tin and leave to cool completely on a wire rack.
My comments:
This is an interesting recipe to start your breadmaking learning curve with! Experts (like Paul) sometimes don't realize how much their special knowledge is being used subconsciously when they make recipes like this. On the surface it appears simple but it requires a lot of special knowledge to be successful immediately. He makes it look easy. With that said, this recipe can teach you a lot! Rye, spelt and a sponge made with them is fraught with special considerations but sound delicious!
The trick to being successful is to choose a recipe that you can enjoy and make it over and over so you learn how the ingredients behave. Take notes and don't give up! Every bake is a success if you learned from it.
Have some delicious fun!
Many thanks for taking the time to reply. This was my second attempt and yes a little disappointment has crept in. But I am determined as I like the idea of this type of bread. I have been cooking for the last 30 years and, in general, there is little science in it and more pallet.(at least in the cooking I do). I have shyed away from baking as success does take time.
Hoping this forum will keep their secrets :) I particularly like good descriptions of the texture you are looking for.
Thanks again.
Here is a 70% Australian rye with Austrian spelt and a rye sourdough starter... with lemon juice added.
IMG_1472.JPG
After looking at Mini's lovely loaves, it reminded me that I usually use smaller baking tins for rye. Take a look at how filled your tin it with this dough. It should be at least half filled. I re-examined your picture and it really looks as if part of the problem may be the tin is too large. Your dough should weigh about 750g and would be appropriate for:
"900g/2 lb loaf tin. Dimensions may vary slightly but should be approximately 23 x 13 x 7 cm (9 x 5 1/2 x 3 inches) " per Google.
However, being rye, it might fare better in a smaller (narrower and taller) tin for a higher climb.
Here is an article on "Choosing the Right Pan ". It is in volume measurements. Your flour amount is right on the border of putting it in the larger pan but being rye/spelt, I would probably try the smaller pan.
Rye-especially above 30%-has very different handling requirements and handling needs. Spelt ,also, has idiosyncrasies but both are so delicious that they are well worth the learning curve. Actually, it is not more difficult than a wheat learning curve-just different. So do some research on "rye" "high percentage rye" "spelt" and esp. heed MiniOven's posts-she is accomplished at both.
Keep posting your results! Especially the pictures.That's is how we all learn to perfect our bakes.