The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Half oven spring issue

Moosta's picture
Moosta

Half oven spring issue

Hi

I introduce myself: Moosta an aspiring baker :)

I'm new here and I need a little help to resolve my issue with the oven spring of my bread

I followed every steps, timing and temps about a typical country bread recipe with sourdough (with 75% hydro)

Bulk at (26°C-78,8°F) for 4 hours (the dough has doubled) > 3 folds every 30 min. > pre-shape> 30 min bench rest > final shape > Putted in the bannetons. > Final Proof for 16 hours at (6°C - 42,8°F) > Baked in dutch oven (Lodge Cast Iron) at  (250°C- 482°F) then I dropped down the temp to 230°C - 447°F) 20 minutes with lid on and the last 20' with lid off.

Where have I failed? Any advice will be appreciated

Thanks! Moosta

 

Bread1965's picture
Bread1965

Hi Moosta..

I think your final proof is too long - it's probably too long. You should try 10 -12 hours and see if you notice a difference. Also..  I'm assuming you are using typical bread flour? And how much levain are you adding?

Also, I'm not sure how everyone else feels, but I'd do bulk proof in a slightly cooler temp if you could - maybe closer to 76, to slow things down a little.. and don't forget to autolyse for atleast an hour..

Let me know..

Moosta's picture
Moosta

Thanks Bread1965. I'd have said it was an Underproofed situation instead an Overproofed
but above all I poked the dough and it sprang back slowly but not completely so I supposed it was ready to bake.

Yes, sorry, I forgot to add some precious details:

- 1 h and a half of Autolyse with water at 18°C - 64,4°F
- I use a italian bread flour with 15 gr of protein (We use this flour for ciabatta bread with biga preferment or poolish)
- 20% of Levain (estimated on the flour weight in this context 400 gr of flour and 80 gr of levain)

 

Thanks!

Bread1965's picture
Bread1965

.. would be to say that maybe your bulk is too short, and your proof is too long... how much did the dough expand from it's original size from when you started to when you shaped? (meaning, did it increase by 25%, 50%, double?).. maybe you needed more time to let that happen (to get to about a 50% increase in size) and then pull back on the time in the fridge..

Moosta's picture
Moosta

Bulk 6 hours, final proof 14 hours, same result

I’m doing some baking mistake, 

Moosta's picture
Moosta

First of all, thank you for your support :)

in the first post, I wrote that during the bulk  the dough has increased by 50%
"Bulk at (26°C-78,8°F) for 4 hours (the dough has doubled)"

and if it were a baking problem?

Anyway, for the next batch  I'll apply your advice in a way more detailed.

 

Bread1965's picture
Bread1965

Moosta..

Try making the bread with a hydration of around 70-72%..

for bulk proof if you can make two loaves .. one where you let dough in the bulk increase by about 30% and the other 50%.. and then shape each respectively..  keep track of the time it took for this so you know..

then in the final proof consider using the fridge.. after the final shape, put the bread in your basket(s) and in the fridge.. time it so that you let them only stay in the fridge no longer than 12 hours max in the coldest part of your fridge (cover the baskets with a plastic bag or shower cap.. when ready to bake, put them in a pre-heated oven without letting them come to room temperature and bake as you would normally..

Lastly, to make sure that it is not your scoring that limits the oven rise of one or the other loaves (assuming you make two).. load the bread with the seam side down into your basket after final shaping (meaning after you have done your final shape on your counter/bench, place the bottom of the loaf into the basket and your smooth tight top is on top).. then when you take the loaf out and place it into your oven, you would flip it out of the basket so the bottom of the dough will face up and do not cut/score the loaf.. the loaf will open up and bloom on it's own .. like this video around minute 3:20.. again, when you take it out to bake don't score the bread.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPdedk9gJLQ

See how they come out.. the second experiment i would do is to not use the fridge, but let the dough increase in volume by about another 50% after in the basket and bake them at that point and see how the result is different..

Good luck!

 

Moosta's picture
Moosta

Let me make sure that I understand you correctly:

Experiment 1- Two loaves

- hydration 72% -
- 1frst loaf (Bulk increase at 30% > bench rest > pre shape > shape > seamed side down the basket > retarded proof max 12 hours)
- 2nd loaf (Bulk increase at 50 % > bench rest >pre shape > shape >  seamed side down the basket > retarded proof max 12 hours)

Experiment 2 - Two loaves

 hydration 72% -
- 1frst loaf (Bulk increase at 30% > bench rest > pre shape > shape > seamed side down the basket > R.T. Proof at 50% )
- 2nd loaf (Bulk increase at 50 % > bench rest >pre shape > shape >  seamed side down the basket > R.T. Proof at 50%)

 

Thank you :)

Moosta's picture
Moosta

Thank you so much for your help! The next weekend I'll try to apply your advice and I'll start with experiments.
For a clearness overview of the situation, I attach some pictures of the last batch I made: 
Bulk 6 hours, final proof 14 hours). In my opinion, this batch doesn't appear over-proofed or under-proofed

Now I have to stay focused on rising and baking issues, I think that the weakest link is this sore points.

Cheers
Moosta

Bread1965's picture
Bread1965

Moosta..

You've got great looking loaves there.. Very nice in fact. Try one experiment at a time but yes you have it.. and make sure your bulk is in the fridge..

But as I looked at your bread I thought about something else.. how you stretch and fold and how you shape will influence the rise and crumb you get.. if you look at these loaves you'll see that it's how they were shaped as much as how they were bulked/proofed that influenced the bloom I got.. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/55000/not-so-hole-war

Consider buying Trevor Wilson's e-book.. for 9.99 it's a great deal.. it's profoundly changing how I make bread.. http://www.breadwerx.com/open-crumb-mastery/

Good Luck!

And PS - No, they don't look over proofed.. but try the experiment and think about the results.. make two this weekend and two the next.. pace yourself.. it's a long journey! And lots of bread to eat! :)

 

Moosta's picture
Moosta

Bread1965,

Thanks for your precious advice you'll be a big part of my future experiments. I know Trevor Wilson ebook, amazing technique!
Do you know "Lievitazioni Naturali of Matteo Festorazzi"? He's a sort of our "Italian Trevor Wilson" :)
https://www.amazon.com/Lievitazioni-Naturali-Italian-Festorazzi-Matteo-ebook/dp/B06ZZN9KSB

I'll keep you posted!

 

 

Bread1965's picture
Bread1965

.. it looks good.

Rickderbaker's picture
Rickderbaker

Beautiful loaf, I'm new on this blog, but have worked in artisan bread bakeries for the last 14 years. Unfortunately where I work now, we have almost outgrown our space, and It's very difficult to play with new and long ferment breads. We don't have the space and time. As to your issues you were having I agree with the person that recommended lower hydration and shorter proof. Looks like it's working. Good luck and keep after it.

Rick 

Moosta's picture
Moosta

Thank you, Rick!
Yes, absolutely, I'll decrease the hydration and I'll manage better bulk with shorter final proof, totally agree now :)

Moosta

Moosta's picture
Moosta

Any advice about oven temps?

Do I follow the Ken Fornish or Chad Robertson indication? :)

 

Moosta's picture
Moosta

The first dough (50%) has doubled in 9 hours of bulk at 26•C. I tested the levain before th mixing and It was healthy and strong 

It’s a bad start!

Moosta's picture
Moosta

In my opinion this crumb indicates a overproofed loaf

can someone confirm this?

thank you

Moosta