The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Problem with preheating Artisan Bread loaf pan

kjohnson's picture
kjohnson

Problem with preheating Artisan Bread loaf pan

My husband has COPD/Emphysema/Asthma and cooking at high heat (450) such as I do when I make Artisan Bread is now affecting his progressively worsening condition.

I have been preheating the glass loaf pan for 1/2 hour at 450 before putting the dough in. I can't smell a thing but his lungs are so reactive that he can't tolerate the heating of the pan (even after I do the self-cleaning oven and wipe down the night before) nor the baking at that temp. I don't know how to solve the problem. In the good weather I open windows and turn on the exhaust fan but it is now in the 30s.

Would parchment liners help? Would baking in disposable pans help? I'm assuming the bread is only successful when the pan is heated for 1/2 hour so am thinking that the thinner material of disposables would make the bread fail. Help. Thanks.

Karen

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

outside or in the garage or have a separate "Summer Kitchen."  A temporary solution might be to use a counter top oven on a table out there or somewhere sheltered outside.  

Stove top cooking and I can think of a dozen household chores that must aggravate the condition.  Perhaps not doing baking and vacuuming/dusting at the same time or hanging a fine cloth in front of the oven and over vents while baking might help as long as there are no open flames.  Don't mill your own flour inside the house.  

If preheating the oven causes such misery perhaps it is not wise to use the oven at all for anything.  OR perhaps use a bread machine ... outside.

I don't preheat glass at all for baking bread.  I let the dough rise in the glass and then bake it as it with or without the lid  depending on what I make.  

kjohnson's picture
kjohnson

I have thought about a smaller oven that I can put into a spare room...thanks.

 

LP14's picture
LP14

I looked into the cuisinart steam and convection oven as an option for baking bread in the hot, humid Texas summers. It apparently does a good job with bread. It's small so maybe you could place it in an area of the house that is well ventilated and/or would be closed off from your husband? 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01JRT2WOG/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_12?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

sirrith's picture
sirrith

It really does do a good job with bread, as long as the loaf isn't too big (because then the top gets too close to the elements and burns).  I have one of these ovens since I moved into my new flat a couple of months ago, and I'm embarassed to say I haven't used the big "proper" oven once for baking bread because the cuisinart is so good!

 

kjohnson's picture
kjohnson

Beautiful loaf! Here's the thing...we use the Artisan bread in one of those gadgets that cut the bread into even, sandwich size pieces. I know that is probably against all Artisan Bread principles of integrity but that's what we do and so I use a sandwich loaf shaped pan. Yesterday I picked up a corrugated loaf pan the same size as the Pyrex one I've been using. So, I will try that next. We did experiment with cooking a pizza yesterday at 425, after a night of self-oven cleaning. He had no reaction. So, now we're thinking it was definitely the scorched surface of the Pyrex setting off fumes. We'll see what happens tomorrow morning with the Artisan bread in the coated, corrugated pan (it is like the King Arthur pullman loaf pan).

 

MontBaybaker's picture
MontBaybaker

Hi!  We share a first name.  Is your glass pan coated?  I have a 15? year-old glass Pyrex non-stick loaf pan.  Don't know what the surface coating is (box/instructions long-gone).  It's stamped "no microwave or broiler".  I've never used it higher than 350 (never preheated), only for quick breads.  No knife or dishwasher, and after all these years the coating is intact.  Many non-stick skillets have a maximum temp because high heat releases toxic chemicals.

Are clay bakers or Dutch ovens (usually pre-heated) problematic?  When I make yeasted bread as loaves rather than in clay bakers, I use cold USA pans and have never detected an odor from the non-stick coating.  Wishing you and your husband all the best and hope you find a solution, as homemade is good on so many levels.  

 

kjohnson's picture
kjohnson

My Pyrex sounds like yours, glass, noncoated, old. The clay baker was absolutely unable to be used; he had to leave the house it was so bad. Dutch ovens would make a loaf too large for us. Thanks.

 

Portus's picture
Portus

... seems to me "an out the box" explanation needs to be sought.  I assume you are baking with electricity and not a biomass fuel? Could it be the alcohol (ethanol?) or carbon monoxide waste generated by fermentation; or simply the presence of yeast in your home environment?  I sympathise as I am predisposed to asthma, which can be triggered by the slightest environmental change.

kjohnson's picture
kjohnson

Electric oven. The bread uses 1/4 tsp. of yeast and rises inside the oven with door closed so I don't know that the yeast smell would be the problem, but that's a good thought. None of this was an issue until his condition worsened.

HansB's picture
HansB

You do not need to pre heat the loaf pan at all.

kjohnson's picture
kjohnson

The recipe for the No-Knead Artisan bread calls for preheating the loaf pan and I assumed it was the preheating which prevents the dough from sticking to the loaf pan (which is not oiled/sprayed at all). No?

law_and_loaf's picture
law_and_loaf

I don't bake in glass but I routinely bake in a dutch oven without preheating and all works just fine.

curious, what size loaf pan are you using?  if it's a standard 4.5 x 8.5 or 5 x 9, have you considered stainless steel? 

kjohnson's picture
kjohnson

I will try that next, good suggestions.

 

suminandi's picture
suminandi

What about baking at a neighbor‘s house, giving them part of the loaf as ’payment’? Many of our neighbors would be very sympathetic about a health problem, and few of them use their oven much. 

kjohnson's picture
kjohnson

Wonderful suggestion and I have a neighbor that would work with this idea but I bake this bread every week and really would like to have an easier solution, long-term. I am in a very rural area and would have to get out in the weather and possibly shovel my driveway to get to her house. I am honestly considering a small oven for this but how small do they come?

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

I bake regularly in pre-heated cast iron pots, which are much smaller than a Dutch oven but work the same. I've got two kinds - enameled and plain cast iron. Would something like this work do you suppose?

kjohnson's picture
kjohnson

I need a loaf pan size....9 x 5 or 8.5 x 4.5 .....I am going to try a steel one next and see what happens.

Portus's picture
Portus

... my thinking is for you to test if you husband reacts any differently if e.g. you baked in a friend's kitchen with your husband in attendance, and all other circumstances were similar to home?  Also, flour dust in working conditions over prolonged periods can cause COPD, so have you tried mixing your dough away from home; it may be this rather than the actual baking that triggers his adverse reaction?

kjohnson's picture
kjohnson

Thanks for being a problem-solver...we are thinking it is ONLY a problem with the oven at temps of 400 or more..so first we are experimenting with oven temp....if there is an issue BELOW 400 then we have a much bigger problem (casseroles, etc....) Flour dust doesn't seem to be an issue as I usually start that process a couple hours before he is even out of the bedroom....

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

350°F will bake a bread nicely and anything up to 400°F.  It just takes a little bit longer until the inside temp is reached.  

I thought this interesting for the first two paragraphs.   Mentions oven temps over 464°F causing air pollution from yeasted breads.

http://www.epa.ohio.gov/portals/41/sb/publications/bakery.pdf

Portus's picture
Portus

... that pops out a sort of Dr Watson observation for a pondering Holmes!

Portus's picture
Portus

... that pops out a sort of Sherlockian observation for a pondering Dr Watson!

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

entertaining one...  http://infohouse.p2ric.org/ref/26/25044.pdf

I got lost sucking up all the info on large pre-ferments.  :)

Portus's picture
Portus

,, who the protagonist should be!

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

got a magnifying glass around here somewhere....

Portus's picture
Portus

.. which I came across in my research - http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0422763813001994 - about the "effects of exposure to flour dust on respiratory symptoms and pulmonary function of mill workers" in Egypt - sans calabash pipe.