The Fresh Loaf

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Is this scoring technique wrong or is it my oven?

sentur's picture
sentur

Is this scoring technique wrong or is it my oven?

I’m trying to master scoring to maximise the growth of the loaf in the oven and create that pleasing ear look. I’ve baked 3x sets of sourdough loaves recently, but every time the one on the left of my oven rises with a perfect ear shape, where as the one on the right has some oven spring but the ear never properly forms. The bread has been 3x different recipes (vermont, wholemeal and a standard white sourdough). All resulting in pretty much the same results in terms of slashing / scoring.  Is this something to do with my oven or could there be something else in play? Bad scoring technique on the right load? Too tightly shaped dough?   Here's a couple of other images of the other loaves I've made which had the same issue. https://imgur.com/u4Bc6OO https://imgur.com/RKiYPBv  
HansB's picture
HansB

If you are doing everything exactly the same except oven position, it is the oven position.

Home ovens do not heat evenly. Try moving the loaves around during the bake.

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Always the same spot in the oven? It's the oven. 

I have the same issue. 

Perhaps baking in a Dutch Oven or equivalent might ease this problem. 

alfanso's picture
alfanso

Agree with the above.  Turn them 180 degrees and also switch their positions left to right.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Perhaps you can drop the loaves down a notch in the oven if they are not getting too brown.  The baking paper looks too nice so I suspect the bottoms are not as dark as the tops?

Another idea along with changing up positions is to heat the oven slightly higher than the bake and then turn off the oven for the first 10 minutes after quickly putting in the loaves.  Are you using the fan during the bake?

Gas or electric oven?

The loaves look a but under-proofed to me as they want to burst a bit too much.  Could also be too dry or thick dough Skin.  Or the split is setting too fast.  Both loaves have a dark line of crust next to the score, one then ripped wider and the other tore open on the opposite side of the loaf.  

What's the hydration and how long do they lie in the bannetons?  

Oven temp?

kendalm's picture
kendalm

Consider proofing times and the order you shape. I tend to agree with the above and its a bit tricky to tell by the photos if loaf 2 is over proofed. If for example you take 5 minutes shaping each loaf thats enough time for the first to enter the dreaded overproofing zone while the other is proofed just right. Funnily as it is thats exactly what happened to me yesterday and i think i still have enough loaves left to demonstrate with photos. I did 3 loaves, the first was full on overlroofed, second had signs of over proofing and 3 just slightly with hints of sinking zones. Its incredibly important to have final proofing spot on as theres not a lot of time before co2 production becomes your enemy. Although it seems more likely the oven is just unevenly heating, I will try to get some photos as yesterdays disappointment is a really good illustration of this. Examples coming soon ...

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Certainly an unevenly heated oven is a possibility. Another is uneven steaming. I have found that the relative horizontal position of my baking stone and my steam source can make a difference in the oven spring/bloom of loaves.

Make sure the steam can get to both loaves equally.

David

AlanG's picture
AlanG

If one preheats the steel/or stone to a temperature above the baking temperature for a sufficient period of time, the unevenness of the oven should be equalized.  I heat the oven to 500F with a baking steel for 30 minutes when the bread goes in the temperature is lowered to 460F for 15 minute with steam; final 15 minutes is with no steam but convection fan on which will even the temperature for the later stage of the bake.  this is for two 500g batards and they seem to bake evenly in my oven.

Portus's picture
Portus

... to check heat distribution:  place a sheet of baking parchment in the oven with more than a few marshmallows strategically positioned over its surface area; then follow the timing and pattern of caramelization.

jimbtv's picture
jimbtv

I'm placing my bets with David (dmsnyder)! When I have steam trouble my loaves look like the one on the right.

It looks to me like the loaf rose just fine except the growth in the score skinned over. The blowout on the far right indicates that the loaf continued to try to expand outside of the skinned top.

sentur's picture
sentur

Thanks for all the advice. It's great to get such a response so quickly.

Here's answers & clarifications to a few points mentioned:

- I've been baking 2x batard loaves in one oven, on a baking stone. No dutch oven.
- I've used a deep roasting tray in the bottom of the oven without about 1 - 1.5 litre's of boiled water in it. This doesn't completely cover the oven floor but more than 2/3.
- It's a fan oven which wont allow the fan to be turned off.
- I've been preheating to the max 260C and then dropping down to 220C once the loaves go in for 20 mins and then down to 180C for another 20-30 mins. This is because the outside has been colouring very quickly. By 35+ the crust becomes very gold and burns past 45+ mins
- Electric oven.
- The baking shelf is at it's lowest position. It could go lower if I baked without a tray of water in the bottom of the oven but I guess this wont really help?
- I can't remember checking the bottoms of the loaves. But at a guess they're not as dark as the exposed crusts. Usually they're light-to-medium golden colour.
- Hydration has varied, I think between about 60-70%. I need to asses this futher though as I've used a variety of recipes from different bakeries.
- They've been in the bannetons for approx 8 hours, in the the fridge. I cover them with cling film plastic whilst in the fridge to avoid a skin fomring. I tend to either bake direct from the fridge or let them warm up for 30 mins before baking. The reason it's an 8 hour prove over night in the fridge is usually to do with my work schedule.

As some have suggested, moving the loaves around during baking. Am I wrong to think that I shouldn't open the door or move anything around in the first 15 mins? I was under the impression that it could cause damage to the crust / skin or cause the loaves to collapse.

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Your convection oven does present special challenges with humidification, but it should heat evenly.

I assume (hope) your baking stone has enough clearance so air and water vapor can circulate around it. I think I would try centering both the baking stone and the water tray. If your stone blocks circulation, that defeats the convection system.

I don't know how big your loaves are. Assuming they are between 700-1000 g, I would bake at 225 dC for 30-45 minutes (depending on loaf weight).

Your retardation and proofing should be fine.

Convection ovens tend to vent steam. Opening the oven door before the crust has started to form is not advised.

Hope this helps.

sentur's picture
sentur
  • Loaves are between 650-750g. I've found going somewhere in the middle to lower end has been working well for me lately. To avoid them proving beyond what the banneton can hold.
  • The baking stone doesn't completely cover the metal shelf. 

How long would you recommend before opening the oven, as a rule of thumb?

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

When to remove the steaming apparatus depends on the oven temperature, the bread and the steaming method. But the real criterion is set by the bread. Steaming is no longer useful once the crust is "set" - It is starting to brown and become firm. 

For me, the time I steam varies from 10 to 15 minutes. It usually amounts to between 1/3 and 1/2 of the total baking time. As a generalization, the smaller the loaf the higher the fraction but the shorter the actual time. For example, I baked some 250g ficelles this morning. They were baked at 480 dF, 10 minutes with steam and 10 minutes at 455 dF convection bake in a dry oven. I'll be posting on them tonight or tomorrow.

Timing of steaming is different for loaves baked in Dutch ovens.

David