The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

enhancing the flavor of 50% rye sourdough

harum's picture
harum

enhancing the flavor of 50% rye sourdough

I baked the Sourdough Rye with Walnuts recipe from Hamelman (minus walnuts).  Both bulk fermentation and proofing were about mere one hour each, just as the book says.  I ended up with a good looking crust and crumb.  However, the flavor was kind of undeveloped and definitely much less sophisticated than the bread from local farmer's market.

Has anyone tried to somehow tweak the recipe to enhance the taste? 

I can think of (a) longer, retarded fermentations; (b) adding rye malt (red or white); (c) changing the flour ratio.

Would appreciate any comment/suggestion.

Thanks, h.

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

and if they are roasted first, even better.  :)

Bread spices?

Use less sourdough starter and ferment longer.

Save s few slices (freeze) to use crumbled into the next loaf.  Either add with the liquids or build the starter with it.  

Use sourdough only to raise the loaf.  

Bake longer for more crust flavour.

Walnuts and rye work well together. 

Get some spelt into the flour mix.  

harum's picture
harum

Appreciate the response!  Will ask the bakers from the farmer's market about what flours and spices they put in this particular bread that I thought was really good.  Hamelman's Sourdough Rye with Walnuts has a very similar crumb and crust, except that they are lighter in color and blander in flavor.   Maybe increasing rye content and using longer fermentation will help.

 

Should I replace some bread flour with spelt or the rye in the recipe?

Thanks, h.

 

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Rye can always be increased (depends on your rye addiction)  but I would replace part of the standard wheat with spelt wheat and see how you like it.  Don't be afraid to toss in the slice or two of already baked bread (altus.)      

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

My Deli Rye has a three-stage sourdough starter build - the first is a bread flour sponge (more than 100% hydration), the second is a rye sponge (more water and coarse rye flour added to the first stage sponge), then a firm starter made by adding bread flour and bran to the rye sponge. This happens over three days, and each stage is refrigerated overnight after rising. The finished dough also has caraway and nigella seeds in it, and is also refrigerated overnight. Takes a long time to make but it's okay if you plan ahead, and the flavour is amazing.

I just made a 100% rye sourdough (pumpernickel volkornbrot) that has three kinds of barley malt (crystal, chocolate and Maris Otter plain). Now that's a bunch of flavour!

 

harum's picture
harum

Thanls LL!  Is the three-stage sourdough starter build another name for the Detmolder three-stage sourdough build (as in Hamelman)?  This definitely is something to try.  I guess I will replace the sourdough from the Sourdough Rye with Walnuts recipe with a Detmolder three-stage full sour keeping the overall hydration at 68%.  

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

in a 12 hour Lazy loaf induced coma after reading the dough description.  I will never be the same...  malt dancing in both grey matters.  :)   

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

Sorry to put you in a coma, Mini! It sounds like a lot more work than it is. Each build takes about a minute to mix so it's not too stressful. :)

I don't know if there is a name for this method; I got the recipe originally from Reinhart's "Crust and Crumb", and liked it so much I keep making it. Very, very tasty!

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

and taste that sent me comatose, it was lovely, believe me...  now to make it real!  It sounds easy enough, just need to find the malts out here in the jungle!   :)

harum's picture
harum

This SD bread from Josey Baker's Bakery made with red and white wheat and rye is slightly tangy and fruity, no extra spices; I was wondering if this outstanding aroma and taste is due to red wheat and long fermentation?  As I have been trying to improve the rather bland taste of my version of Hamelman's sourdough rye, would overnight refrigeration work on a dough containing 25% rye?  Thanks, H.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

easily.  :)

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

rye bread.  One time, years ago,  I called her the Rye Master and she really came down on me hard  because she is not a master baker like JH but I'm guessing JH can't make love at first bite with a 104% hydration Walnut and Chia Seed Rye Bread like she does.  This is one of the very best breads of any kind ever posted on the TFL.  Lucy, of course, made it better in her walnut sized brain pan :-)

But Lucy isn't giving away her secrets as easily as MO does - it is a determined German thing I think.  So I will steal from Lucy's pantry and spill the rye grain for all to see.

First off, you can retard a high percent rye bread.  I have done it many times.  Cold temps bring enzymatic action, that would normally destroy rye bread crumb structure and strength to a near halt.  The other thing is that red rye malt will make your rye breads taste so much better.  Also, using a NMNF rye starter to build a rye bran levain really take over the top.  Lucy is coming so I can't tell you the rest till later.  Happy baking

harum's picture
harum

Good to know that rye doughs survive retardation!  

I often use crystal rye when baking high-% rye breads with dark rye.  However, I was thinking more about adding whole red wheat to the Hamelman's WR&WW recipe hoping it might add extra flavor and aroma.  I've tried this bread from Josey Baker, which if I remember correctly was "Red, White + Rye" and according to the label contained just that, white and red wheat and rye, and I'd say this was the best SD bread I've ever tried.  

How do they get these mild tasty tang and fruity aroma?  Is this their freshly-ground heirloom flours or the techniques?  Was the rye in the form of malt? Hard to tell without the recipe, but I want to try adding some red wheat and slowing down fermentation in an attempt to give more taste to my whole wheat/rye bread.