The Fresh Loaf

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Gelatinous crumb

oo7wazzy's picture
oo7wazzy

Gelatinous crumb

Hi Freshloaf

 

I have a question about the crumb of my bread. 

I baked olive ciabatta the other day . I did a 8 hour overnigh ferment and shaped and baked the next morning . I let the shaped loaves rest for 30mins before baking. As You can see in the picture the bottom part of the slice has this opaque , gelatinous strip. It was as if it hadn't cooked through. 

I bake with an industrial deck oven , on terra-cotta tiles. Temp was 220C for 30mins which is definitely hot and long enough for ciabatta. The colour on the crust was golden brown and beautiful. 

So I don't think it's the oven. 

Any suggestions on why it wpuld be like this ? 

It was a 90% hydration that I always use and it usually cooks all the way through. Could it be the fermenting ? Over fermented ? Over proofed ? 

This has happened before to other sourdough too but I can't figure out why ?

thanks . 

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

What's the recipe? A 30min final proof sounds very short. 

oo7wazzy's picture
oo7wazzy

250g flour

225g water

5g salt

0.75 g instant yeast

30g olives

 

Combine flour , water, yeast.

mix and autolyse for 30-45mins

add yeast and olives

turn and fold every 30mins x 4-6 depending on how the dough feels

ferment from 8pm -5am room temp +- 20 dec C

shape and proof for 30mins

bake for 25 mins

This is how I have been doing it and its been great. In fact, sometimes in dont let the dough proof fro more than 10mins. I turn the oven on, start to weigh and shape the dough and then when the oven is ready i pop in the loaves and they have come out perfectly.

I have made rustic sourdough before and also had a similar problem so thats whey I was thinking it had something to do fermentation, that would effect any type of bread. 

 

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

You mentioned it has happened to other sourdoughs before so I was under the impression this was one too.

You mention adding yeast twice.

1: combine flour, water , yeast

2: add yeast and olives

3: you don't mention adding the salt

I can't see anything else wrong with the recipe and as you've said it has worked before. The only things I can think of is change in temperature. So watch the dough and not the clock. Or you've changed an item like using salted olives which knocks the recipe off (provided you remembered to add the salt into the dough #3).

oo7wazzy's picture
oo7wazzy

HI 

This was a Ciabatta recipe , not a sourdough

Sorry , my mistake.. I didn't add yeast twice , it was meant to read,

1: combine flour, water , yeast

2: add SALT and olives.

I noticed that when i divided the dough , that it was more sticky than usual. It didnt separate as easily, more tacky instead of been puffy and light. The dough did more than double in size so when fermenting, so I dont think it needed more fermentation.

Having said that, do you think I should use a greater percentage of yeast ?

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

and yet it looks under fermented to me. Curious!

The only thing I can think of is enough time for the fermentation taking into account the change of temperature. Are you going into the summer or winter?

Have you changed the flour by any chance? 

oo7wazzy's picture
oo7wazzy

We have gone into Spring so the evenings temps have got a little warmer. So it could be that. But I thought that I had compensated for that by reducing the amount for yeast a fraction. Flour is the same.

Do you think its necessary to squeeze out as much of the liquid from the olives before mixing into the dough ? Or would that just be absorbed by the the dough ?

I know ciabatta is going to be cool and never a dry bread crumb , but mine is not baking as dry as i would like, as if its retaining moisture and not baking out. The bottom doesn't sound hollow enough when I tap it and it could be harder or more crisp. But i cant bake it for longer, thats not right. The oven is hot enough and there is enough oven spring .. so i'm guessing that it must be the fermentation.

Thanks for the help.

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

will effect the hydration so I would try and drain them better. Also make sure they aren't salted as that will add to the salt in the dough. If they are salted then rinse them first or reduce that added salt. Although going into spring, while I thought that would have speeded up the fermentation, it seems under fermented. But you say you have reduced the yeast. So perhaps even though it is a bit warmer perhaps the amount you've reduced it to is too little. Might still get cold at night as well. It's worth a try to stick to the unaltered recipe and see what happens.

oo7wazzy's picture
oo7wazzy

Thanks for the help.

HansB's picture
HansB

But it looks a bit under baked too. Have you taken the internal temperature after baking?

oo7wazzy's picture
oo7wazzy

No i didnt take the temp. Thing is though if the outside is cooked and the inner temp is not right you cant cook it for much longer otherwise outside will be overcooked and the crust burnt.

clazar123's picture
clazar123

Just to clarify terms.

Fermentation refers to bulk fermentation-after mixing the flour/water/yeast and allow to rise (ferment) to double or so.

Proofing refers to the time after bulk fermentation and after shaping/panning. It is the time that allows additional gas and bubble formation to be developed before being set by the heat of the oven. This establishes the airiness of the crumb.

Looking at the crumb of your loaf, I believe it is a little UNDERproofed with a possibly slightly OVERfermented dough. Usually really big bubbles on top and smaller,popped bubbles on the bottom mean an overproof. But the crumb of your ciabatta looks like the bubbles on the bottom never formed to pop. That says UNDERproof to me.

But why would it be underproofed? Underproof occurs either when there is not enough time for the bubbles to form OR not enough yeast power to form bubbles. Lechem identified a crucial variable (seasonal temp.change) and you mentioned that the dough seemed stickier than usual. Your seasonal temps were rising. I believe your dough actually over fermented (sticky dough) due to the slight increase in room temp (it doesn't take much at that temp. range) and so had a decrease in the yeast ability to proof the dough in the usual time that you allotted (10-30 minutes). I'm not sure that extending the proof time would have helped much as with a very wet, overfermented dough, there is a very fine line between properly proofed and overproofed. And it also depends on if the yeast had enough power left to work after expending itself on a warm, prolonged bulk fermentation.

My advice: Bulk ferment for less time or at a cooler temperature, and then proof a little longer.

 

 

oo7wazzy's picture
oo7wazzy

HI Clazar123

I think this is the problem and the fact that the dough has been feeling more sticky/tacky seems to suggest that it has over fermented. I have changed from fermenting in the fridge to room temp because i have been making bigger batches and cant fit it in the fridge anymore.  So its either getting a bigger fridge or possibly mixing the dough with ice cold water to slow down the fermentation.

 

thanks

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Got a better picture of the bottom of the loaf?  I see no crust colour in the bottom crust.  The top should also be much darker for 30 min at 220°C.   

Something is wrong with the heat under the loaf.  Either the oven hasn't preheated long enough or the tiles are not being heated to 220°C.  How long was the pre-heat?  Check the oven and the fuses.

oo7wazzy's picture
oo7wazzy

I have been thinking about the bottom heat for a while. I dont know if the terracotta tiles i have in the oven are getting hot enough. I have been pre heating the bottom element to 260C to make sure it is hot enough but that still might not be working. Im going to order some ceramic oven tiles in stead and hope that works .

 

thanks for the help

leslieruf's picture
leslieruf

and heat to 250°c and they definitely get hot enough.  Maybe as Mini oven says the bottom element is not working properly. I preheat oven for 1 hour before baking.

Leslie

 

oo7wazzy's picture
oo7wazzy

Thanks Leslie. I have been heating it for between 30-45 mins.. maybe it needs a little longer to get the tiles hot enough

albacore's picture
albacore

Perhaps one of those cheapie IR handheld thermometers with laser sight would be useful to check the temperature in various parts of the oven?

Lance

oo7wazzy's picture
oo7wazzy

HI Lance

 

Yes iIam looking into getting one of those. Unfortunately they are not that cheap where I live but a worth while purchase.