Bagels collapsing
I'm new to the forum, so hi.
I've been working on a bagel recipe for some time. One of the problems (according to my wife, according to me its the only problem) is that they tend to deflate after I take them out of the boiling water and put them in the cold bath. They do rise some in the oven, but it never seems as though they ever rise as much as they did when they puffed up from the boil.
What I'm doing now is, after I shape them, I leave them in the fridge overnight. When I'm ready to bake, I let them sit out on the counter while the water boils and the oven reaches the right temp, ~ 20 minutes or so, so that they aren't so cold when I boil them. This seems to have helped me get a better rise out of them. I boil them for a minute on each side, cold water bath for about a minute or so, and when the tray is full, I put them in at 225 c until they brown and flip them over for a few more minutes.
I've been watching some videos on bagels and I notice that they don't seem to treat their bagels so gently, so I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong causing them to deflate, or if something in my method just doesn't allow for puffed up bagels.
If anyone has any tips, I'd really appreciate it.
I also intend to make another post in the near future with a step by step and pics of what I'm doing, for some feedback and tips from the community. I'm not even an amateur baker, but I've been working on this recipe for months already and if there's any room for improvement, I'd like to find it.
Bagels are made from a very stiff low hydration dough and not allowed to rise much. :)
A look at the recipe and hydration may help solve the problem.
Thanks! Hydration is 55%. Its not that they're not rising, they do, when I take them out of the boil they're nicely puffed. But after the cold bath they're deflating and don't rise as much as they did in the boil - when I put them in the oven.
that's a new technique for me...don't recall ever seeing that in a bagel recipe before.
I see it in a lot of recipes and videos. I think I've read that its either meant to halt the yeast or to make it crustier. Personally, since I have to boil my bagels two at a time, I find that it keeps the tray of bagel more evenly baked, as otherwise by the time the last bagels are out of the boil and ready to go into the oven, the first ones are already cooled down, making the temps inconsistent throughout the tray.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/recipes/bagels
Bagels are boiled for one minute each and not one minute on each side. Could that be the difference? Perhaps the yeast is killed during the long boil.
I will definitely try that for my next batch! That might also explain why my bagels are so crusty (which isn't bad, really, but still).
Thanks!
on Mini's comment on the boil, I don't time it at all. The bagels are brought out of the fridge once the water is boiling (I use a 1% lye solution) and dropped into the pot, three at a time in my case. They sink, and when they float back up, I immediately scoop them out and dip them into a pan of cool water for only a moment before moving to the bagel boards. Once they're all boiled, they go into a hot oven.
If yours don't sink when you put them in to boil, you have likely let them ferment too much.
gary
Thanks for the response!
Do you let them rise before you put them overnight or do you shape them and fridge them right away?
I mix at low speed until shaggy mass, then (if I remember) switch to the dough and knead about eight minutes. I use a DLX and for a dozen bagels, the hook is marginally better than the roller. Not enough to sweat, though.
Divide the dough into two pieces and roll out each to about a foot long and cover. Let them rest about 15 to 20 minutes.. As Stan Ginsberg says, let the little beasties get frisky. Now shape, lay out on a corn meal dusted baking sheet, cover with plastic and refrigerate
Bagels are not bulk risen in the usual sense.
gary
I think the problem may be more in the proofing than in the boiling. I boil mine for about a minute each side, then put them straight onto the tray and into the oven. Mind you, I boil mine in a large rectangular electric skillet and can do eight at a time (awesome!). Perhaps you could try a large deep skillet rather than a pot and at least do four at a time?
Anyway, I sometimes shape them, let them rise a bit then put them in the fridge overnight. I find this doesn't work as well as bulk fermenting overnight, then shaping, proofing and boiling them when they are proofed (puffed up a bit and they float in cool water). It's easier to keep an eye on the rise and the readiness this way. I think maybe they either over-proof when put into the fridge shaped, or they don't like to be boiled when cold; not sure. They do seem to turn out better without the overnight shaped retard. Of course, bagels aren't supposed to be 'puffy' but still, you don't want flat discs, right?
Initially I was doing bulk fermentation overnight. But the problem I had was that the dough lost its tackiness and was very stiff from the cold in the morning when I went to shape them, and that made it harder to shape.
What may be a problem judging from what you and another poster has said is that mine aren't sinking when I boil them, they float right away. I think when I pulled them straight out of the fridge they would sink and stick to the bottom until I nudged them. But the way I'm doing it now, they just pop right back up.
Actually, mine float right away too. That might indicate they are slightly on the post-peak side of proofed, but it doesn't seem to have been an indicator of a problem.
Maybe you could divide the cold dough in the morning and shape it into balls, then shape into the bagel shape after letting it rest and warm up for a bit?