The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

No knead Bread is not working for me....

macette's picture
macette

No knead Bread is not working for me....

Hi everyone, I need some advice....I have been trying to find a good recipe for a crispy sandwich roll and not having any luck producing it. My latest is no knead the usual flour salt yeast and water. I wanted to ask is it ok to use less water. When I try this I am ending up with a dough that is very soupy has no body falling into a pool when on it last rise after a 12 hour first ferment . Mine never looks like the videos when first mixed either Artisan Baker on the video has to really stir to get the flour mixed in mine mixes very easily, which makes me think the water  amount is to much for my flour.  Can I reduce it a bit to look right .Help please ....

gillpugh's picture
gillpugh

I had the same problem. im new, only three months baking, but I do bake five times a week.  I found my bread didn't flatten out after bulk fermentation if I reduced the water to 70% of flour.  I also changed my flour from a generic supermarket type to a artisan flour, or an independent mill.  I also now slap and fold for 5 minutes after autolise as I wad not getting a good rise or oven spring when I was folding the dough.  In my usual erratic methods I'm not sure which of the above solved the problem.

Elsasquerino's picture
Elsasquerino

Flour can vary in 'thirst' from one bag to the next let alone country to country. If I'm following a recipe from the states here in the UK I know that our flour cannot cope with the same hydration without feeling much wetter than the author intended so I adjust slightly to compensate.

macette's picture
macette

Thank you so much, I am really glad to hear my UK flour is probably not as thirsty. I will try again ...i want to make a small batch dont want to bin more bread. The recipe I used for no knead bread was 3 cups flour,1.5 tsp salt,.1/4 tsp yeast 12oz water. This makes 6 rolls. Can I cut it in half to see if it works...any idea  for a reduced water amount or will I go by eye....I have great results with white sandwich loaf for spring but the wet dough is driving me crazy. I will try maybe 70% of the 12.5 oz if I can work the math...lol

Arjon's picture
Arjon

The same volume of flour in particular can vary quite a bit depending how much it's packed. You can see this for yourself without a scale. Put sifted flour into any container that has a level top. Flatten out the top. The pack the flour in. You'll have room to put in more, possibly 20+% more. 

It's easy to see that this can work against getting consistent results, even from the same recipe. In addition, it can make it hard to learn how the dough from a particular recipe should look and feel.

Also, which no-knead recipe are you using? In general, it's easier to work with a lower hydration dough, say ~65%, especially if, as it seems, you're relatively inexperienced. 

macette's picture
macette

I think recipes should be in weight....but when recipes say I use the fill and shake method it's a bit up in the air then they say this recipe is very forgiving.....driving me crazy. For beginners this a nightmare. The recipe I used is Steve the  artesian baker On YouTube. I just wish people would use weight and not cups....it does show how it should look and I knew mine did not look the same with that amount of water that's when flour comes into play....that's why I do think videos are very helpful. But can we convince Americans that weight is better than cups....lol

MonkeyDaddy's picture
MonkeyDaddy

in a post a while back.  Someone was trying to make sense of a recipe written in volumes instead of weights, and she suggested doing multiple volume measurements as directed and weighing each one, then taking an average to come up with a weight you can refer to again in the future.  Once you have a number use that to convert your flour amount to weight, then repeat the process for the other ingredients.

Keep detailed notes about the character of the ingredients, the dough, and the finished bread so you can make tweaks after the fact.

I wish I could remember the post that was in because her explanation was great.  If anyone else could pull in that link that would be awesome.

      --Mike

macette's picture
macette

There is a weight for a cup of flour they say 120g there might be a variation on weight depending on flour and country. Then you are never quite sure of their cup size. Notes would be very important....Thanks Mike its worth a try.

Arjon's picture
Arjon

Videos et al can definitely be helpful. However, it's not a given that, for example, your 70% hydration white flour dough will look exactly the same as someone else's. For one thing, all flours that carry the same name aren't the same. So, your AP doesn't necessarily have the same gluten % or moisture content as someone else's. I haven't noticed it myself, but some people have reported that they've seen / felt differences between different batches of the same brand.  

Also, there are plenty of no-knead videos that show bakes that use weight, so why follow one that doesn't?

albacore's picture
albacore

Hopefully the dreaded cup will eventually be a thing of the past!

Meanwhile the answer is simple: don't use any recipe that is based on cup measurement!

macette's picture
macette

That might be the simplest idea but you cant help yourself can you,,,lol...

BobBoule's picture
BobBoule

is the person who invented No-Knead bread (as we know it now), so watching his video might give you some valuable insight. I find that its a very tolerant technique and I can vary the hydration percentage significantly and still get a great loaf out of it.

For beginners I find that the most common errors are: old flour (use a well known brand of Bread Flour, which has higher protein content), old yeast, just get a fresh packet from a store that has high turnover (check the expiration date on it). Measure everything precisely, using scale and measuring by weight results in a huge improvement in success.

I've varied hydration from 50 to 85% and always got a good loaf of bread out of it. If using tap water, keep in mind that it probably has chlorine in it which is detrimental to yeast. It doesn't bother most bakers but until you make successful loaves assume that your water is a problem. You can let the water stand in an open container for an hour to allow the chlorine to evaporate or run it in the blender for two minutes to speed up the process.

Another common issue is temperature. High temperature can destroy the yeast so avoid anything more than very warm water when you are first starting out.

The original No-Knead recipe requires extremely little handling of the dough. I found that its such robust technique that I don't even bother folding it at all. I literally pour my dough into the screaming hot dutch oven quickly (and carefully), put the hot lid on it immediately and get it into the oven, all in well under ten seconds, and get great results every time.

Jim Lahey No Knead Bread Original Recipe https://youtu.be/13Ah9ES2yTU

macette's picture
macette

I am definitely watching that, I will try hydration first.  I think yeast is fine its working well in my sandwich loaf. And I always take temp. of the water before using. I'm pretty sure I was putting to much water in following the recipe and not taking the difference of flour into consideration. I will try again after watching the video...lol. Cooking in a dutch oven I have never tried mainly because I don't own one.....lol I was trying to shape the dough into  bread rolls which was impossible...I still have a lot to learn, but its great to get help here, Thank you Bakers its much appreciated ...

markgo's picture
markgo

I was in your shoes a couple years ago... searching for a crispy sandwich bread to use with a philly cheesesteak sandwich.  After a few weeks of searching, trial and error, I discovered banh mi bread - the vietnamese version of the french baguette.  Here's an excellent video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz9r3vNRxPA

This video helped me realize that the key to a light and crispy bread bun/loaf is to keep it simple and proper steaming. 

Now, I can bang out a quick batch for sandwiches in about two hours. 

I hope this works for you! Good luck! 

macette's picture
macette

thank you markgo, the video is great just what I'm looking for, I have eaten these in Sydney we bought our bread at the Vietnamese bakery . They are wonderful rolls. The dough looks more manageable and the small recipe helps me a lot. I am looking forward to a lovely steak sandwich. I will post my results. Can't wait to try these...

macette's picture
macette

I have the sponge sitting in my microwave covered. I'm hoping I can leave it in there overnight and add the rest of the flour ready to knead in the morning. I don't know if you are suppose to refrigerate the sponge when leaving overnight....help pleaseeeee

macette's picture
macette

So happy Banh Mi rolls look great...the video posted above by markgo was really helpful . The recipe worked beautifully. Slashing needs practice and no pointy ends was on purpose. Won't know until I cut later. 

macette's picture
macette

pic above is wrong angle....