The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Rye Bread with sour cream - questions

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

Rye Bread with sour cream - questions

I usually bake a rye bread using:

5 lbs King Arthur Bread flower

2 lbs. Bobs Red Mill Dark Rye

2 cups of carraway seeds

6 tsps of instant yeast

7 tsps of salt

7 Tblspns of honey

then water as needed.

Yield: 4 loaves

Can I add 3 cups of Sour Cream without any problems?

Many thanks.

 

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

For  3175g flour, 2 cups is a lot of caraway.  I would scald the sour cream and part of the water (to prevent burning)  eventually topping off with water or ice cubes for the recipe water amount, then adjust from there if you need more water.

 I would also soften the caraway while heating the water but only one full shot caraway per half kilo flour.  If you haven't made it before with this amount of caraway, I wouldn't go over a cup.  Hit them lightly with a hammer first before tossing into the thinned sour cream.  You get more for your buck that way and they soften sooner.

Salt is just over 1,1 % of the flour weight.  A bit low.

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

 

Thanks as always Mini Oven. Sounds to me like great advice.The scalding of sour cream is totally new to me but I see on Google that for some people:

The best way to scald sour cream is to use the double boiler method.  If you do not have a double-boiler, simply place a heat-proof bowl (such as stainless steel) over a saucepan of simmering water, taking care to hold the bowl with a hot pad or mitts as it will get warm.

Add room temperature sour cream to the bowl of double boiler and heat slowly over the simmering water.  Make sure to stir occasionally and scrape the sides of the bowl so the sides do not burn.  Do not let the sour cream mixture boil.  Bring it just so that the sides start to bubble.

 Just curious what would happen if I did not?

Thanks as always.

cb

 

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Then get back to us.

I think there might be a bigger difference if one were to use a sourdough culture but you are using yeast.  With a sourdough, the presence of a large amount of bacteria may suppress the sd yeast activity.    I don't really know for sure but would be interesting to find out.  

Many cultured products will break down gluten matrixes, it's part of decomposing.  It's all a matter of how fast it can happen to whatever flour/dough you're working.  

Rye will work with the acid aspect of the sour cream.  The wheat will give you the long working window.  But the dough may act more like a sourdough than a yeasted dough so watch out for signs of gluten deterioration while it is fermenting.

 Good Luck!

When I see sour cream and caraway together I can't help but think of one of my favourite Austrian soups. Made with first sautéing finely chopped onion and hammered caraway ev. soup stock and plenty of sour cream.  Wouldn't surprise me one little bit if some of this soup made its way into a bread dough, perhaps with a mashed cooked potato.  

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

Mini Oven

Thank you.

My wife agrees with you: one cup of caraway should suffice. Thanks.

So for the amount of salt, should I use  8-9 teaspoons rather than 7?

I will do everything as you suggested and report back upon completion in about a week.

Gratefully as always.

Country Boy

 

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Add as written but taste the mixed up dough to find out if you prefer more salt.  

2% of 3175g is 64g   there is 15g in a Tbs of heavy table salt.  64g / 15 = 4.2 Tbs.  I tend to use less.

There are 3 teaspoons in a Tablespoon.   So 3 level tablespoons sounds good.  At least for about 1.5% on the flour total.

Three % caraway would be about 95g.  That would make a very flavourful caraway dough. 

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

Thank you so very much for your speedy answer.

I will gives this a try tomorrow and report back in full.

Gratefully,

Country Boy

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

:)   

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

 

Mini Oven

You are one very motivating person and a wonderful teacher. So much so, my wife and I decided not to wait, and baked our rye loaf today.

My wife gets all the credit for the sour cream scalding and posting of the photos; I couldn’t have done it without her.

I baked the bread and the 2 pics are the results.

            

 

My comments:

  •   I used 3 Tablespoons of salt and it definitely helped the taste over what I used before. 

  • I used only 1 cup of smashed caraway and again the result was much better.
  • We liked the sour cream effect but will really have to wait ‘til tomorrow for the loaf to dry out and cure a bit more. Having a wife who could focus on that scalding was a great help.
  • The 2 pics are of one loaf but there were 4 total in this batch and all were pretty much the same. I found posting them impossible but again my lovely wife made it possible.

Again, many thanks for your patient guidance.

Country  Boy  

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Country Boy and Girl,  you are most welcome.

Glad to hear all went well.  The breads look great, see you had a good rise.  Agree a wait until tomorrow taste and texture  should improve.   A++   (extra plus for teamwork)     :)

Mini

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

The bread has had plenty of time to cure and it is our sense that our sour cream efforts do not result in any real sour taste in the bread, and so not worth the effort for anyone considering this option.

Thanks again. for your great help.

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Certainly is if you have "over the edge" sour cream or dairy and still want to use it in something.  I can remember my mother saying (when we complained the milk had gone sour) to put it back in the fridge and she would bake something out of it.  You could hardly tell a bread or cake or whatever was sour tasting from it.

If you want it more sour, use a tiny portion of sourdough culture in the dough and give it lots of time to bulk ferment in a warm environment.

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

What about vinegar?