The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

sandwich loaf splitting in oven

mutantspace's picture
mutantspace

sandwich loaf splitting in oven

 

Im hoping someone can help me with this recurring problem. Everytime i put a wholemeal sandwich loaf into the oven im getting a split whether its scored or not. I dont think its underproofed - if anything it could be over proofed. This split only happened on one side of the bread as you can see from the photos. After scouring this forum and other sites i was thinking it could be one of the following:

1. underproofing. Result: a fast oven spring that tears the gluten

2. loose shaping. Result: weak spot in dough

3. tear in the dough while rising: Result tear exasperated in oven

4. not enough kneading - dont think so

5. too much kneading

suffice to say the problem is driving me crazy as im happy with the crumb and love the taste - im just bothered by the aesthetic quality of the loaf.

Another problem is the loaf tin is simply too big but, besides that, I never have this problem with sourdoughs and am finding it difficult to know when the loaf is proofed properly as everything happens so fast  - unlike sourdough making.

This bread had a second rise of 70 minutes. I dd a poke test and the bread was very slow to bounce back thats why i think it may have been overproofed. It did rise, not a great deal, but i didnt expect it too rise too much as its over 90% wholewheat with 25% oats.    

Anyone any ideas what could be the problem...the only constant is that its a consistent problem....  

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

It has crusted over too quickly on top so the side burst due to steam escaping through the weakest spot. 

mutantspace's picture
mutantspace

could be - im so used to using dutch oven that im only starting off with steaming oven. I did put ice cubes into pre heated pan - that was sitting on bottom of oven - before i put in bread and then threw in cup boiling water into pan when i put bread in.

I did notice that there was a slight tear (barely a tear more like a weak spot) in dough before it went into oven but i thought id be ok. I keep thinking im gentle with the dough but obviously not gentle enough..im at the stage where im paranoid about handling the dough at all.....practice i guess  

jimbtv's picture
jimbtv

This is what I see.

It is interesting that the bottom of the loaf has been lifted away from the baking surface. You can see this on both pictures. In that case the oven spring found it easier try and make a balloon out of the loaf than to split at the score. Eventually you got a blowout at the weakest point, which was no longer the score but instead a point where the original bottom met the side of the loaf. 

To me this points to a lack of steam because the score line sealed-up before the the loaf had a chance to expand completely.

mutantspace's picture
mutantspace

the photos are misleading. the bottom of the loaf is flat and there was no scoring. I decided not to score loaf which didnt help. I have read that most pan loaves are not scored as the lip acted as the weak point.

However ive been making too little dough for my 2lb tins. So i have a feeling that my small dough has been lulling me into waiting too long for it too rise (as ive been waiting for it too rise above the lip) and then heat is getting in and around it from everywhere so effecting the baking with an increase in heat happening in the tin due to hot air getting trapped while the loaf is rising (although thats a wild guess - i dont know if that would account for the blow out on the side).

The blow out does happen along the seam of my roll. I know that i rolled it a bit too gently (i.e. i should have tightened it better) but thats only because i thought that it i tightened if up id get a blow out! (kind of catch 22 situation). That all being said could it be that:

1. i need to tighten up shaping

2. make enough dough to fit pan properly

3. shorter rise

4. score the loaf

5. put it into oven sooner

  

jimbtv's picture
jimbtv

So the loaves were baked in pans? I guess I didn't pick up on that earlier.

I have been trying to perfect a sourdough pan loaf formula I got from Trevor @ breadwerx.com. After a few months and several bakes I think I am ready for prime time. Here are a couple of shots:

 

 

 The reason I am showing you the pictures is because my early efforts were full of blowouts and mis-formed loaves. I think the most effective changes were the introduction of lots of steam - 20 minutes, and an aggressive score on top of the loaf. My early scoring was similar to what you will see in Trevor's pictures but for me, the result was blowout after blowout. Sizing the amount of dough for the Pullman pan took a few attempts too. Having the correct amount of dough volume in the pan plays an important part in how it develops throughout the bake.

I am following Trevor's formula and this bread takes some time to ferment and proof. I think I can say that a 6 hour ferment and an 8 - 24 hour cold proof is pretty much standard. Since progress is slow on this bread it is also forgiving, in the sense that fudging a couple hours here or there will still end up with a good result.

This particular bread is made with AP, spelt and rye flours so my results will be different than yours. The point I am trying to make is that it generally takes several bake runs to get the bugs worked out, and then several more to insure that you can repeat the final product.

Steam, aggressive scoring and pan sizing made the biggest differences for me.

 

Jim

 

andythebaker's picture
andythebaker

i still don't understand your reasoning for why you think it's overproofed.  if it's overproofed, that means the dough has no more rising to give in the oven.

i think it's underproofed (meaning the dough still has "energy" to expend and expand) or not enough steam (crust is set before expansion is done).  solve one of those two, or score it, and you should solve the issue.

my 2 cents.

mutantspace's picture
mutantspace

It's possible it's underproofed but with pike test the bounce was practically gone so I went for it....could be steam...the ride itself is ok as my major problem was pan was too big for dough (I'm going to increase by 1.5 next time) and with 25% oats and 90% whe wheat I wasn't expect big spring...it's the blow out that's annoying me...I'll try again except this time change shaping, increase size, score and add more steam and we'll see where we go from there

mutantspace's picture
mutantspace

Thanks for that Jim your bread looks wonderful and handsome too :) I too do 12 hour pre ferments of 50% poolish with instant dry yeast with a 1/16 tsp yeast and soak the other 50% at the same time - as Trevor Wilson does with his premixes (I do my sourdough same way (20% levain + premix) and yes the bugs are so frustrating if I can work out the problem I can fix it but I'm getting so paranoid with handling that I'm learning nothing -  however I think you're right: I'll  make bigger loaf, score it and steam more (I already steam for 20 minutes) - I might lower wholemeal percentage too 

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

I've changed the way I do pan loaves lately. I usually do score them but I've stopped rolling them. I found that sometimes (especially if I didn't score) they would split at the seam when rolled. See this post here for pictures. Now I do a letter fold then chafe the dough into a loaf shape with a tight skin. And I'm back to scoring. :)

jimbtv's picture
jimbtv

Lazy, the pictures in your earlier posting (link provided) look pretty much like my early loaves. Total blowouts along the point where the dough touched the pan - right along the upper margin. Conservative scoring didn't really change things much, which is why I went to the full, deep score demonstrated in my pictures.

As to shaping I fully agree. I too do the letter fold, precluded with a stretch, then just enough tension building to bring the whole thing together. I generally do my "karate chop" thing along the seam to seal it, then roll it back and forth a few times to make the seam blend in. Once I drop it into the pan I then gently press down along the top of the loaf to distribute the dough evenly throughout the pan. This has help make things more uniform.

Mutant, there is steam and then there is STEAM! The design of your oven may preclude you from developing enough steam. I know this because I have to pump 5 psi of steam continuously into my oven for 20 minutes to get the results I want. My gas-fired deck oven doesn't have a sealed baking chamber so the steam I pump in pretty much goes right up the vent stack within seconds. This is why I have to keep pumping in more steam all  the time and my steam generator works pretty hard to keep up with the demand. I say this because you may have to become more aggressive with your steaming techniques.

 

 

mutantspace's picture
mutantspace

So basically do a batard shape, put it into pan, spread to even out, score and steam, steam, steam....sounds like a plan...also going to multiply all my amounts by 1.5 to get proper size - think that will make a difference too

mutantspace's picture
mutantspace

Thanks to everyone for their advice and help I just took a great looking sandwich loaf out of oven: lots of steam, big score, envelope shaping and correct amount of dough for loaf tin. This is a wonderful forum for all aspiring bakers you put me on the right track so many thanks again

jimbtv's picture
jimbtv

Glad to hear that you found success in this last baking run. Hopefully it tastes great too!

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

So, pictures? :)

mutantspace's picture
mutantspace

sorry yep here are some bad pictures - it tastes great....its a porridge, multiseed, honey, wholewheat and bread flour loaf. Its moist and creamy which is good....it has a good dark rich crust...i also made a 50% poolish and had half flour fermenting for 14 hours before the mix to give it more flavour

 

mutantspace's picture
mutantspace

Me too - it smells great and I've made it before as a free form loaf with various seeds, oats and a mix of flours so have an idea of what to expect...many thanks again jim