The Fresh Loaf

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Not so fresh starter confusion.

Malthouse Mark's picture
Malthouse Mark

Not so fresh starter confusion.

Bit of a long post - could do with some advice.
 
I've been baking sourdough for a couple of years now so not a novice question, I hope. ;)
 
My starter *was* a wholemeal rye based on the Hobbs House recipe on their website. I fed it with Doves Organic Wholemeal Rye.
 
Sometimes it smelled alcoholic and fruity, sometimes a bit acidic and, at its best, clean and fresh like a newly opened tub of plain yoghurt.
 
I did also get the starter that Hobbs House sell and it smelled the same.
 
My starter baked a good loaf.
 
Some time ago I tried the starter in Richard Bertinet's Crust book. It is based on white flour and spelt. I didn't like the smell. It smelled "off" straight from the start. I ended up throwing it away.
 
Recently Doves Rye has been not available anywhere locally so I've fed it wholemeal white either from Doves or a local mill that does stoneground wholemeal.
 
The smell deteriorated somewhat and I wanted to get back to a rye starter as the bread tasted different and the crumb changed. I feared that maybe my starter had died as I keep it in the fridge and feed it before I bake once a week. Maybe I left it too long... anyway the starter definitely changed at about the time I started to feed it wholemeal white rather than rye even though it frothed and foamed like normal when fed.
 
Because of the Doves rye shortage locally I went off and purchased a large sack of wholemeal rye from Shipton Mill. I started to feed that to my starter about two weeks ago but it still doesn't smell the same. My second loaves since that change are proving ready for the oven later today.
 
Two days ago I decided to start a new starter from just Shipton Mill Rye - in case the yeasts had changed in my original starter during the process of using different flours to feed the starter.
 
My new starter has started to bubble a little already but it smells similarly strange. I've sniffed the dry rye flour and it smells similar. The starter has no fruity yoghurty wonderfulness.
 
I'd love to get the starter back to how it was but can't switch back to Doves (availability for one thing and 20+kg of Shipton Mill to use up too!!). Any thoughts?
 
Thanks.

drogon's picture
drogon

I use Doves, Shipton and other mills flours (Stoates). I've found my starters to change slightly with different flours, but not dramatically.

You can change a starter into a different flour by simply feeding it that flour - e.g. wheat to spelt to rye and back again. That's how I created my spelt starter - a tablespoon of the wheat and just fed it spelt. The Rye I inherited from a source that claimed to be over 20 years old at that time -  years back. I've fed it varying mills rye, from 100% rye to 'white rye'. It just keeps going. Right now (for various reasons including Shipton mill sending me the wrong thing), it's getting a mix of white rye and 100% wholegrain rye...

My starters live in the fridge - the wheat is used 5 days a week, spelt 3 (sometimes 4) times and the rye 4 times.

I've stopped worrying about the starters in their jars in the fridge. I know they work because they make bubbles. That's all I care about.

Just try making a "production levian" with yours - for a large loaf, take 50g starter, add 100g flour + 100g water - at 30°C. mix it all up, leave it covered for 4-5 hours then make up dough, mix/knead/ferment...shape/proof/bake it (500g flour, 300g-350g water or a little more), 8g salt and off you go.

 

Note that when creating a new starter from scratch - yes, on day 3 it will typically smell bad. Bear with it. It gets better. That's just the war going on between the competing bacteria and yeasts - the lactic & acetic bacterias will win in the end.

When I'm using Shipton Mills rye, I get the light rye - type 997. The wholemeal rye is just a bit to worthy for my needs - and it overworks the starters too IME. Try sifting it to get about 90% of the original - ie. sift 100g to get 90g of more usable flour. I'm now starting to mill my own rye and spelt and that's what I'm doing. Got to find a use for all that bran though! Don't use Doves white rye - it's a bit weird.

If you're anywhere near Devon and want some starter, just get in-touch and bring a jar... Check my profile page here for details.

-Gordon

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

If you're in London

Malthouse Mark's picture
Malthouse Mark

Thanks, both of you. I'll give it a while and see if the pure-bread (pun intended) new rye starter freshens up (or the old one for that matter). I'm not too far from Devon (in Dorset) but fingers crossed all will be well.

I just looked at the bag to be sure the Shiptons is what I expected it to be (it's in a nice strong box so I didn't take it out). It is the light rye that I ordered, based on their descriptions I assumed that was wholemeal. From what you've said, Gordon, I'm wrong! I think I ought to have ordered dark rye to get their wholemeal. I might bake some loaves with more rye in to use it up faster and then switch to dark rye. On the other hand it might work better for me, as it does for you, when things settle down a bit.

drogon's picture
drogon

It's what they call type 997 on the continent. It's fine - personally, I think it bakes better than 100% wholemeal rye for general loaves, etc. I make a lot of Borodinsky and my own sweeter version based on the same recipe with it as 100% rye loaves. (as in 100% rye, no wheat or spelt!)

It'll make a good "Deli Rye" type loaf too - use about 25% of the total flour weight with the rye. (The rest being white wheat) and a pinch of caraway seeds.

-Gordon

Malthouse Mark's picture
Malthouse Mark

Thanks, Gordon. A rye with caraway sounds worth trying!

  Mark

phaz's picture
phaz

Lightly toasting the seeds would be worth the trouble.

Malthouse Mark's picture
Malthouse Mark

Noted! ;)