May 11, 2017 - 8:30pm
Lactobacillus vs my fridge
I found a copy of Calvel's The Taste of Bread at my library. In it, he states that lactobacillus does not handle temperatures under 10 degrees well.
My culture got weird a bit ago and I had to restart it from an all-rye starter I keep in the fridge and refresh weekly. Is it possible I am running with an all-yeast, no-lactobaciillus starter at this point?
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Calvel must mean 10 Celsius which is 50 Fahrenheit. The statement is strange as we know one can freeze lactobaccili starter cultures and they can be revived by thawing and feeding to build up the a starter. I've been keeping the same starter in the refrigerator for over three years now and it's not lost any potency or changed in any manner that has affected the taste of bread. I only refresh every couple of weeks. What you experienced was something unrelated to cold storage.
I think a little more detail would help with the possible diagnosis. I always keep my starter in the fridge and it seems to be fine. Fridge is around 4C. I have also used fridge-temperature yogurt to culture new yogurt, which also seemed to work fine.
When you say lactobacillus doesn't 'handle' cold temperatures well, what does that mean? As long as the flavour you want has been produced in your starter, that's what is important, no? Does your bread made with starter taste different than bread made with, say, a commercial yeast-based starter (i.e. a poolish)? If so then I guess the little bacteria must be doing something!
The culture that 'got weird' was the one I keep at room temp and refresh near-daily. I let it sit without refresh for a few days and it dried enough that something not-sourdough-culture got in there. I tossed it and restarted using the rye culture that stays in the fridge, but I've noticed it doesn't seem to be as active as before.
After reading the Calvel book, I became a little paranoid about what's growing in there since I can't easily tell what the actual makeup is - I have to infer. It could be I just haven't been taking it through enough refresh cycles frequently enough to build up the lactobacillus culture.
So maybe everything is fine; I should make more sourdough to really verify. I've been working on croissants lately so I haven't been testing this out.
... on this site, for starter maintenance and what affects the yeasts versus the bacteria. I'd suggest you bookmark (as I have) this thread, for example. Mini Oven is probably the best expert (and a great teacher!) to help you get what you want out of your starter.
One thing that I find is that my refrigerated culture needs to go through a fairly vigorous feeding schedule every so often (i.e. a 1:2:2 feed every 12 hours for a couple of days) to get the yeast population back up there. The bacillus population seems to be fine, really, but the yeasts seem to need a bit more pampering to keep the starter really 'active' (i.e. able to rise bread).
Hi
To be fair to Calvel, he doesn't state that lactobacillus of any kind doesn't handle temperatures under 10C well. He talks about 'flora' of the starter. Specifically, when this book was written, it was discovered that sourdough yeast in San-Francisco sourdough starter doesn't survive under 8-10C.
That said, some lactic bacteria and yeasts fare better in refrigerator at 4C than others and the micro-flora of the sourdough starters is better preserved if you have conditions to store your starter at 8-10C or above, which would require refreshing it at least twice weekly.
It all depends on the kind of sourdough starter that you have, because different starters have different flora. Some starters are perfectly suited to the storage at 4C in a regular household fridge for periods from one day to a week or even two without refreshment. Others are sensitive to the temperatures below 8-10C or even 15C as in desem starter.
- Is it possible I am running with an all-yeast, no-lactobacillus starter at this point?
- No. It definitely will have some live lactobacilli in it, at least L. plantarum will survive without any trouble. Other lactic bacteria won't be so lucky.