retarding the second rise
Quite a few recipes advocate putting the sourdough in the fridge for many hours after is it shaped. Some of these indicate you can leave the dough in the fridge for a very long time -- 12 hours and more. In my fridge, dough left for 10 hours seems overproofed. It looks ok when I remove from the bannetons, bakes up with good flavor and consistent texture, certainly usable - but not the "mountain" shape that comes from good spring, and no "bloom" where it's been scored.
The best results I have had were at 4 hours refrigerated proofing. This is fine for weekends, but I was hoping to find a way to make bread during the week, when I have to go to work. Or sleep. The retarded second rise seemed ideal -- a good way to both develop flavor and delay baking.
Thoughts? I am using the KAF Rustic Sourdough recipe, weighing all my ingredients and following the mixing and handling instructions in the (wonderful) Forkish book. The only change I make to the recipe is to leave out the sugar.
Honestly, I think this is 80% of the way to great bread, but I want that spring and bloom!
Thanks!
I looked at the recipe and I think the problem you are essentially preparing a yeast bread and it has plenty of added yeast. Even with a colder temperature the presence of the yeast is likely leading to over proofing. Those of us how do 100% levain/sourdough breads can refrigerate overnight without any issues. this recipe is designed to go right into the oven on the same day. The fact that you get good results with only four hours of refrigeration confirms this point.
Makes complete sense - Thank you! I had not focused on the amount of added yeast. Other recipes with a longer proofing time and added yeast have only a tiny amount -- I think some of Forkish's recipes use only 1/8 tsp. (He says he likes the lighter crumb.) Since I have some very happy starter, I could probably reduce the added yeast dramatically, or even leave it out altogether.
I have been sticking with the one recipe as I practice, just to help control the variables and track what I do differently with each batch. Had not thought, obviously, that it was prepared with a specific time line in mind.
Thank you!
And I will use this following example for clarity. My first TFL bread was the Anis Bouabsa baguette. It uses no levain/SD at all, but rather is a straight dough using only IDY.
This dough get a 1 hour countertop rise followed by a ~21 hour retard in the refrigerator before baking. A second countertop proof is up to you, although I bake straight from the retard. Anyway, that dough gets a grand total of 0.16% IDY. That represents a relatively minuscule amount of commercial yeast in the dough. And it still gets explosive bloom during the bake.
Now to relate it to your hybrid levain/IDY KAF bread: The KAF uses the equivalent of 6.3 grams of IDY in addition to the levain component. If I were to make the Bouabsa dough using your total dough weight, I would be adding a mere 1.1 grams of IDY.
So - don't let this discourage you. The KAF dough was designed for quick rise on the countertop. The Bouabsa, and many many other doughs are designed for an array of other means of rises and retards. It is a game with rules and once you figure out some basic rules, the game gets easier the more you stay in tune and learn them.
alan (the other Alan G...)
Thanks, Alan -- I am determined! KAF describes this recipe as good for beginners, which means that there is probably less explanation than would be helpful. Follow the steps exactly and it works well. But I really want to figure out the refrigerated retard (am baking straight from the fridge) since this will let me bake on weekdays, as well as weekends.
You're right that it gets easier. It was initially hard to handle the wet dough, but this feels pretty natural now. I also think the starter is in good shape, so am hoping this is the last major hurdle. Looking forward to being able to tweak the flours a little and as Forkish says "make it my own."
Onward!
I was having issues with overproofing until I dropped my fridge temp to 3C/38F.
Good reminder! I will check the temp. Although, if I start to freeze the beer there may be objections from other members of the family...
And what is your method for steam?
I am baking in a preheated Dutch oven. Covered. Wicked hot!
Much better results today, thanks to the feedback I received yesterday! No added yeast in this recipe. An hour bulk fermentation with a couple of folds, then 12 hours in the fridge.
There is always a moment when you're dying to get out the bread knife, but it looks so great....
Thank you to the Alans!